"t.petch" <[email protected]> writes:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Susan Hares" <[email protected]>
> To: "'t.petch'" <[email protected]>; "'Edward Crabbe'"
> <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 5:21 PM
>> Tom:
>>
>> 100% agree with your comments. I2RS cares whether it is read-only or
>> read-write.  My work toward the revision found:
>>
>> - RBNF  RBNF did not even allow you a place to r/w or r-only or
> permissions
>> (needed for security, but that's my next draft).
>> - The yang tree I wrote was r-w for config, but did not express the
> ro-only
>> tree.  I wanted some feedback to figure out why I had 2 write 2 trees.
>>  (your telling me it is a yang short-coming).
>
> Sue
>
> That is a feature of YANG.  Spend half a day on the netmod WG archives
> for 1H2013, particularly May and June and for interfaces-cfg, and all
> will be clear.
>
> As Ladislav said on 2May13,
>
> "In the current model, the operational state data are not present unless
> the corresponding entry in the "interface" list is *configured*. So,
> what I have in mind is a data tree like this: ..."
>
> That is, 'config false' nodes under a 'config true' node do not get
> instantiated in the data model unless and until the 'config true' node
> is configured.  So if you have the one routing table, you will be unable

This issue only affects 'config false' data appearing in the subtree of a 
'config true' node.
In my opinion, such a data organisation should be generally avoided, and that's 
why we now have configuration and state data in separate trees. 

> to see the routes learnt via BGP - 'config false' - unless and until you
> configure the table by creating a static route - 'config true'.

Note this has never been the case in the ietf-routing module. Routing tables 
(later renamed to ribs) were always "pure" state data and the default rib for 
every address family is supposed to be present independently of any 
configuration.

>
> It is a tenet of YANG so fundamental, so basic, that I know of nowhere
> where it is written down:-(

Please see the definitions of system-controlled versus user-controlled list 
entries in sec. 4.1 of draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-13.

I also think think is no idiosyncrasy of YANG, just the way how most systems 
and their CLIs work.

Lada

>
> Tom Petch
>
>
>> - UML seems to be able to handle read/write variants, and I'm looking
> to see
>> if graphical tools will help the developer.
>>
>> Not shown in the reduction:
>> ... And I started working on BGP, ISIS, RIP.. only to find some of
> these
>> issues you mention. DCHP and NTP.   Any suggestions or help would be
>> gratefully accepted.
>>
>> I will continue to try to get more details on Yang++ and ForCES to see
> how
>> many wheels fall off.
>>
>> Sue
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: i2rs [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of t.petch
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 12:08 PM
>> To: Edward Crabbe; [email protected]>
>> YANG (with NETCONF) is designed for writing configuration and reading
>> everything else, and does an excellent job at it.  Trouble is, for me,
> that
>> configuration doesn't mean what I think of it as; it means, in the
> YANG
>> context, what you might put in through the CLI and it excludes
> everything
>> else, such as data learnt via a protocol.
>>
>> Take routing.  A static route is configuration; anything learnt, via
> BGP,
>> IS-IS, RIP etc, is not configuration (and is read only).
>>
>> An interface configured automatically on a hot-plugged card is not
>> configuration; adding 'ospf passive' is.
>>
>> And so on, for DHCP, NTP, .....
>>
>> In practice, this means that the YANG model comes in twin sets, one of
>> read-write configuration and one of read-only not-configuration (as
> can be
>> seen in the current I-Ds that the netmod WG is producing) with no
> formal way
>> in YANG of relating the one to the other.  So if you want e.g. the
> routing
>> table, the host software has to know where to look and how to combine
> the
>> pieces to produce a coherent picture (and then you cannot edit most of
> it).
>>
>> So if I2RS never wants to write anything to a router, YANG is fine; if
> I2RS
>> is only producing a Information Model (and ignoring whether or not
> data is
>> read-only or read-write), and not moving on to an implementation, then
> YANG
>> is fine.
>>
>> Rather, as Andy Bierman said at IETF89, likely I2RS would need an
> extension
>> to YANG, a new sub-statement for all data objects, semantics not too
> clear
>> but designed to separate out the not-configuration, learnt via a
> protocol,
>> 'editable-state' (and in doing so, making it read-write - but still
> 'config
>> false').
>>
>> Yes, YANG allows for such extensions but it seems to me that I2RS
> would then
>> be getting YANG++ (and NETCONF++), once the necessary work has been
> done.
>>
>> Tom Petch
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Edward Crabbe" <[email protected]>
>> To: <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Friday, April 11, 2014 6:50 PM
>> Subject: [i2rs] consensus on I2RS protocol and model
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> i2rs mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2rs

-- 
Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs
PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C

_______________________________________________
i2rs mailing list
[email protected]
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2rs

Reply via email to