Hi Lada,

On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 5:53 AM, Ladislav Lhotka <[email protected]> wrote:

[removing fine conversation]


> > [Alia] We described the arbitration rules in Section 6.3 of
> > draft-ietf-i2rs-architecture-03.
>
> I guess we have to think about a proper representation of operational
> state and ways for tagging its contents or otherwise signalling what caused
> a particular change.
>

[Alia] I think that this is actually implementation-dependent and find the
idea of trying to tag operational state to be excessively complex and
downright scary.  IMHO, the interaction needs to be between the config
system and I2RS.



> For instance, if a configured static route is not present in a RIB
> (operational state), it may be because
>
> - the next hop wasn't reachable when the static route was configured, or
>
[Alia] I think this is a bad example.  The route can still go in - it's
just not active.  Anyway, that's expected to happen in I2RS.


> - the I2RS agent deleted it.
>

In that case, the I2RS agent should have notified the config, IMHO.

The NETCONF server should be able to discriminate between these two cases
> because its action (reinstall the route or not)  may depend on it.
>

With a better example, yes.

Alia


> Lada
>
> >
> >
> >> >
> >> > So one module, three trees, an additional YANG substatement for a leaf
> >> > that is writable by I2RS.
> >>
> >> Rather than inventing new annotations, I'd rather like to see making
> YANG
> >> less NETCONF-specific so that it could directly define schema and
> >> constraints for other datastores such as the one for I2RS.
> >>
> >
> > [Alia] Please - I think there are different assumptions...
> >
> > Regards,
> > Alia
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Lada
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Tom Petch
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> > 6.4.2"  o  writing policy information such as interface attributes
> >> > that
> >> >> > are
> >> >> >       specific to the routing protocol or BGP policy that may
> >> > indirectly
> >> >> >       manipulate attributes of routes carried in BGP.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >    o  writing routes or prefixes to be advertised via the protocol"
> >> >> > I had assume that I2RS might write to an IGP LSDB or BGP Adj-RIB
> but
> >> > the
> >> >> > I-D goes on to say
> >> >> > " direct modification of the link-state database MUST NOT be
> >> > allowed"
> >> >> > (which I have seen on the list w.r.t. the BGP RIB).
> >> >> >
> >> >> > or
> >> >> >
> >> >> > 8" The interaction of state installed via the I2RS and via a
> >> > router's
> >> >> > configuration needs to be clearly defined."
> >> >> > which again implies that I2RS and C/N/S are writing to the same
> >> > data.
> >> >>
> >> >> *Maybe.*
> >> >>
> >> >> In some cases, the overlap with config state will be quite obvious
> and
> >> > your
> >> >> observation will strongly hold.
> >> >>
> >> >> In other cases, I think a better perspective is that I2RS injected
> >> > state is
> >> >> effectively like that of another routing protocol.
> >> >>
> >> >> If you'd like to argue that BGP is effectively the same as C/N/S...
> >> > well, if
> >> >> we're talking Flowspec I might agree. :-)
> >> >>
> >> >> > The examples of data that can be changed are few, such as
> >> >> > "For example, the interaction with OSPF might include modifying the
> >> >> >    local routing element's link metrics, announcing a
> >> > locally-attached
> >> >> >    prefix, .."
> >> >> > which leaves me wondering, do you expect an OSPF YANG model to be
> >> > unable
> >> >> > to change a link metric:-)
> >> >>
> >> >> Sure.  In a highly dynamic fashion? With a fallback to a default
> >> > config when
> >> >> the application is done?
> >> >>
> >> >> By comparison to some vendor specific features, it's somewhat the
> >> > difference
> >> >> between a policy database (config) and the dynamic policy API that
> >> > doesn't
> >> >> require a system reconfiguration event.  If you want to point out
> that
> >> > the
> >> >> relationship is strong and that the defining differences are shallow
> -
> >> > you
> >> >> could very well be right in those contexts.
> >> >>
> >> >> Again, we don't expect I2RS work to supplant netconf/yang.  We expect
> >> > to
> >> >> leverage the work.
> >> >>
> >> >> > If I2RS were aiming at a higher level, say specifying policy and
> >> > have
> >> >> > the system translate that into actual config changes I would
> >> > understand
> >> >> > that, but I do not see I2RS going that far, rather when I2RS says
> >> >> > policy, I think it means changing a community (config again) or
> some
> >> >> > such ie more of an implementation detail than a high level
> strategy.
> >> >>
> >> >> I hesitate to frame it this way, but one example application is a
> form
> >> > of
> >> >> SDN.  The front end says "provision this VPN" to a data model for
> that
> >> >> purpose.  The fact that it may go behind the covers via client->agent
> >> > and
> >> >> eventually install ephemeral netconf state is an implementation
> >> > detail.
> >> >>
> >> >> If you want to argue that such a higher level model is simply
> netconf,
> >> > then
> >> >> perhaps we should de-charter and do all of the work in that group. I
> >> > was,
> >> >> however, under the impression that work for various models was being
> >> > pushed
> >> >> to be done in appropriate working groups. :-)
> >> >>
> >> >> -- Jeff
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > i2rs mailing list
> >> > [email protected]
> >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2rs
> >>
> >> --
> >> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs
> >> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> i2rs mailing list
> >> [email protected]
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2rs
> >>
>
> --
> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs
> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C
>
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