Alan, Thanks so much. I am sure this will work well for us.
Best, Gerald On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 9:52 PM, Alan Kay <[email protected]> wrote: > It's the "make a car you can drive yourself" one which starts with the > painting of a car, scripting it to go in a circle, steering by modifying the > script on the fly, adding a steering wheel, moving the steering wheel's > heading to the car turn by, making a gear by dividing the heading by 3, > making a car that will follow a track, etc. > > This has proved to be a great opening sequence with most 5th graders, and > it goes best with one on one guidance. They learn a lot of things about > Etoys (we counted about 35) and the next few months projects can be done > with what they encounter in their first half hour or so. > > It is extremely difficult to pull off in a mass class with either children > or adults because of the range of pace and what it takes for individuals to > get it, and what questions and prompts they need. Kind of a perfect example > where "mass class" loses badly and one on one is very efficient and > effective. > > Cheers, > > Alan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Dr. Gerald Ardito <[email protected]> > *To:* Alan Kay <[email protected]> > *Cc:* Caroline Meeks <[email protected]>; Cherry Withers < > [email protected]>; [email protected]; Tim McNamara < > [email protected]>; Steve Thomas <[email protected]>; iaep < > [email protected]> > *Sent:* Mon, September 27, 2010 6:00:52 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [IAEP] Etoys, is it difficult or easy? > > Alan, > > Thanks for this. > I am just beginning to work with our 5th grade students and teachers and > will put this into action. > > One question for you, if I may. Can you tell me about the first Etoys > lesson you mentioned (with 35 things in 30 minutes)? > > Thanks again. > Gerald > > On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 7:51 PM, Alan Kay <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi Gerald, >> >> Yes, I think the "experts" approach is a good one also -- we first saw it >> used by Betty Edwards (the drawing teacher) and it works very well if the >> ratio is about 1 expert to 6 or 7 learners or better. >> >> And we have tried this with Etoys (mostly on adult teachers). >> >> However, of all the ways we've tried, doing one on ones, and then using >> the new learners as one on one teachers for the next group (so you are >> doubling each time) works the best (and is also the most efficient with >> regard to how much time it takes to successfully do the first Etoys exercise >> -- in which the learners do and learn about 35 things in about 30 minutes). >> >> Best regards, >> >> Alan >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Dr. Gerald Ardito <[email protected]> >> *To:* Alan Kay <[email protected]> >> *Cc:* Caroline Meeks <[email protected]>; Cherry Withers < >> [email protected]>; [email protected]; Tim McNamara < >> [email protected]>; Steve Thomas <[email protected]>; iaep >> <[email protected]> >> *Sent:* Mon, September 27, 2010 4:31:13 PM >> >> *Subject:* Re: [IAEP] Etoys, is it difficult or easy? >> >> Alan, >> >> First, I just want to clarify that I meant "challenged" in a positive way. >> The 5th graders dove into Etoys first through painting, and then through >> scripting. However, I agree with what you say about artifacts of a >> pedagogical approach. We saw this, too. >> >> Our learning situation involved 4-6 student "experts" with whom I spent >> time showing them the key elements of Etoys needed to begin the project. >> Then, when we introduced this project to larger class, these "experts" were >> free to move around the room helping other students. >> >> We found this model to be a good one for generating a very productive >> classroom environment with the XOs (in fact, it was the topic of my >> dissertation which I completed last May). However, I wished we had spent >> more time with the scripting piece. We had not developed those skills >> enough. >> >> Thanks. >> Gerald >> >> On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 7:10 PM, Alan Kay <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> I'd be curious to hear what the process is with the 5th graders. These >>> were our main subjects. We worked only through regular classroom teachers >>> (who had been carefully coached). You will not see any "challenged" 5th >>> graders if you use a one on one session with them for about 20-30 minutes. >>> The best way to do this is to teach a few this way, and then use "a >>> spreading wave" of one on ones. We found that this was much better with both >>> children and adults than to try to teach all of them in mass. >>> >>> So you might be seeing artifacts of pedagogical approach here (and a lot >>> of "challenged" students result from such artifacts). >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Alan >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* Dr. Gerald Ardito <[email protected]> >>> *To:* Caroline Meeks <[email protected]> >>> *Cc:* Cherry Withers <[email protected]>; >>> [email protected]; Tim McNamara <[email protected]>; >>> Steve Thomas <[email protected]>; iaep <[email protected]> >>> *Sent:* Mon, September 27, 2010 2:29:57 PM >>> >>> *Subject:* Re: [IAEP] Etoys, is it difficult or easy? >>> >>> Caroline, >>> >>> You are remembering well. And I agree with your hypothesis. >>> >>> The 5th graders took pretty well to Etoys. It is the drawing piece that >>> hooks them, and then the scripting part that really challenges them. And the >>> 7th and 8th graders love Scratch. It is interesting to me because they also >>> do plenty of "painting" of sprites and backgrounds, but something about the >>> bricks seems to match their thinking process. >>> >>> I am getting ready to introduce my current 7th grade classes to Scratch >>> and am looking forward to that. >>> >>> Thanks. >>> Gerald >>> >>> On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Caroline Meeks < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Gerald did some interesting work last year introducing both Scratch and >>>> eToys to 5th and 8th graders. >>>> >>>> Gerald please correct me if I am misremembering. >>>> >>>> I think the results were the 8th graders took to Scratch more and the >>>> 5th graders took to eToys more. >>>> >>>> Our hypothesis is that the first thing you do with eToys in draw and >>>> that is very accessible to 5th graders. They can engage with the system >>>> before they have to start understanding programming. >>>> >>>> On the other hand 8th graders were directly ready to engage with >>>> programming and had a easier/faster time picking that up with Scratch. >>>> >>>> This is very much a hypothesis, not proven and not based on much data >>>> but it would be interesting to explore further. >>>> >>>> On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 12:22 AM, Edward Cherlin <[email protected]>wrote: >>>> >>>>> OK, I'll send it to you separately. Anybody else is still welcome to >>>>> join in. >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 20:47, Steve Thomas <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> > Edward, >>>>> > Thanks, please send me the outline and what you think needs to be >>>>> more >>>>> > "easily discoverable" and I will work on it. >>>>> > Stephen >>>>> > >>>>> > On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 6:06 PM, Edward Cherlin <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >> >>>>> >> It is true that you can do all of these things in EToys, if you know >>>>> >> where to start. It is also true that the start screen of EToys could >>>>> >> be improved by providing a path to each of them, and to other >>>>> >> education modules, and Etoys could be improved with a few more >>>>> >> introductory modules. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Since children and untrained teachers cannot be expected to discover >>>>> >> these paths, and paths in other Activities, on their own, I am in >>>>> the >>>>> >> middle of writing a guide to Discovery on the XO. The starting point >>>>> >> is my Wiki page, >>>>> >> >>>>> >> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/The_Undiscoverable >>>>> >> >>>>> >> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick >>>>> >> The undiscoverable is an unofficial FAQ for tips, tricks, and >>>>> >> solutions to common problems that may otherwise be tricky to find. >>>>> >> These are being considered for inclusion in the official SoaS >>>>> >> documentation. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> The Etoys section needs vast expansion. I have an outline in mind, >>>>> >> which I can share with anybody who would like to work on it. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 15:59, Tim McNamara < >>>>> [email protected]> >>>>> >> wrote: >>>>> >> > The analogy doesn't quite fit, as it's possible to do complex >>>>> things in >>>>> >> > all >>>>> >> > of those tools and it's easy to do simple things in EToys. Each >>>>> Activity >>>>> >> > can >>>>> >> > be used in this learning model, e.g. training wheels to motorbike. >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > Tim >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > On 25 September 2010 05:48, Cherry Withers < >>>>> [email protected]> >>>>> >> > wrote: >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> And Scratch? ... don't remember where I read it, but it sounded >>>>> >> >> logical >>>>> >> >> to me. >>>>> >> >> Use progressively difficult tools for progressively difficult >>>>> tasks. >>>>> >> >> To confirm this statement, I add the phrase: "Visible learning, >>>>> >> >> invisible >>>>> >> >> technology". >>>>> >> >> Children would first learn TurtleArt. >>>>> >> >> When they outgrow it switch to Scratch. >>>>> >> >> When all its possibilities are exhausted, continue with eToys. >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >>>>> >> > [email protected] >>>>> >> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> -- >>>>> >> Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin >>>>> >> Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. >>>>> >> The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. >>>>> >> http://www.earthtreasury.org/ >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >>>>> >> [email protected] >>>>> >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin >>>>> Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. >>>>> The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. >>>>> http://www.earthtreasury.org/ >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Caroline Meeks >>>> Solution Grove >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> 617-500-3488 - Office >>>> 505-213-3268 - Fax >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > >
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