MQ from IBM developed about 20+ years ago helped get from Batch to real time. You put messages to a queue, and it can run IMS transactions (including OTMA), CICS transactions, or even batch!. You can put on one member in a sysplex and get in another member. It has single put, and also publish/subscribe capability.
Colin On Sun, 19 Jun 2022 at 22:27, Joe Monk <[email protected]> wrote: > "What have transactional systems like CICS or IMS got to do with > real-time, straight-through processing? Most mainframe transactions > store data that is later processed by batch, typically overnight." > > If you think CICS and IMS are transactional only, youre stuck in the '80s. > As an example, ICCF on VSE uses CICS as the TP Monitor. Tell me that > writing code, storing it in a library, compiling, etc. are not "real-time". > > Joe > > On Sun, Jun 19, 2022 at 1:03 PM David Crayford <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > On 20/06/2022 12:38 am, Seymour J Metz wrote: > > > Keep in mind that the mainframe can only do batch processing, with > input > > from cards. It doesn't support anything like CICS, IMS or Sabre.. > > > > What have transactional systems like CICS or IMS got to do with > > real-time, straight-through processing? Most mainframe transactions > > store data that is later processed by batch, typically overnight. In the > > case of banking transactions that require inter-bank settlements this > > can cause delays of several days. In Australia the government mandated > > the NPP (New Payments Platform) which facilities instant payments using > > payids, which can be an email address, cellphone numbers etc. The API is > > a simple REST API using HTTP > > > > > https://nppa.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/NPP-API-Framework-v4.0-Final.pdf > . > > > > It's my understanding that no bank implemented NPP on the mainframe. > > From the presentations I've seen they used CDC to capture writes and > > then published events to Kafka, which was fanned out to different > > micro-services to do fraud detection, payments, push notifications etc. > > Back in the day straight-through processing was a pipe dream which is > > why we have overnight batch. It's a relic of applications written > > decades ago for very different hardware platforms. > > > > > > > It's much better to run Linux than to get an IFL, which can only run > > batch. > > > > I have no idea what you mean? > > > > > > > > Cynical? Moi? > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > > > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > > > > > ________________________________________ > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [[email protected]] on > > behalf of David Crayford [[email protected]] > > > Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2022 2:36 AM > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM > > and AWS > > > > > > On 19/06/2022 5:23 am, Enzo D'Amato wrote: > > >> I also agree, but as a non-insider, I wanted to know what others were > > thinking. I also belive that in most cases, the effort spent trying to > get > > off the mainframe would be better spent actually fixing the code running > on > > it in the first place. Moving around broken code doesn't automatically > fix > > it. > > > It's not just about fixing broken code. If you read the ING CIO's > > > remarks about why they wanted off the mainframe it's not about the > > > platform. Nobody denies that mainframes are insanely brilliant hardware > > > platforms. ING wanted to get rid of batch and move towards an event > > > driven architecture using pub/sub where they can easily deploy loosely > > > coupled micro-services to provide cutting edge products. The technology > > > stacks are built on open source such as Kafka, MongoDB, Cassandra, > NiFi, > > > Avro etc. The retail banking industry has been disrupted by fintechs > so > > > waiting for an overnight batch schedule for settlements is a > competitive > > > disadvantage. Cracking open and modernizing 50-60 year old COBOL batch > > > applications is a VERY heavy lift. > > > > > > > > > https://secure-web.cisco.com/1GoiNO6FBPSWW0D9FZYVYixer1jsPeSd_xH-wmi6jMOC-onAkZQ4Pkf3c1UMGWbQeEprnkSWa1xGxz4vvn-LF0jVrCFlVVFZKQJ4Jti8nbQ7QchsOxhwNiwluJrdKkQP2nXXHQH2Ut2NNa9VChfVBIDR7Akw4ud6_pIXLAFXO5l73Sv-iLZFNU1MWWnLapWhhCKvytdzs7EJTvNZ2qbU8xwCdBEl1UkUuL-jHHZLk6xJPxAadVRWP1nuLz8i5AZrfvDI8u8rZ0V0DT77_Uvu8klHLbL9xe2qaYi1P6a6mc8r9Aj2jothGC-CR9cbCgb-JVXupgin9UctH5C_iVMyn_T-9jzZjtNyZDETxb8hXMU-BOuUz89MGu1nniZJ2tvSSN8yh5A6K-_It8fA10UFCfSBhOB0NVkwKL5M8A2BxZ9_e111GnxGK_PAbj0wh5fvU/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theregister.com%2F2016%2F07%2F01%2Fing_mainframe_strategy%2F > > <- read > > > the comments section. It's hilarious :) > > > > > > The doubly whammy is there's a skills crisis slowly unraveling. In the > > > last year we've had 3 key resources move to 3 day weeks with a view to > > > retiring. Replacing highly skilled assembler programmers with deep > > > subsystem knowledge is proving to be difficult. Young people don't want > > > to learn HLASM as they consider it a dead-end. Their position is "why > > > invest 3-4 years learning a language that is useless if you move to > > > another industry?" I can't comment about COBOL application developers. > > > > > > In 10 years time I expect the mainframe to be alive and kicking and > > > significantly modernized. The small/medium shops will probably be all > > > gone. When I first moved to my current town in 1998 there were 25-30 > > > mainframe sites. Now there are 3 and 1 is on life support. One of our > > > customers re-platformed their CICS/COBOL/Batch applications from a z9 > to > > > a single blade server. It doesn't make any sense financially for a > small > > > site to run a mainframe. > > > > > > https://secure-web.cisco.com/1-2iTgedz9DPApFopeywjfCeLAkb4kS8D5gFCEDU1FxvGiDWA4ou6pqJyb1d_hBAvGUBtcA89RrAylX3opaG2YEyDaGkIhptpRdukdHvdGOJNKn5bruFlKlnigitV6PrV4n-6zInQkhkJJdSriM40VeYiNOpB8Pg3nTa5E6k6TTIOXSfdaiQOGk1Y6EXL4Xtu-wkeXJmwaPEZljVo3KuwR0K75lrsX8fDe2f2CjcjvfrM3ruLG4na4zrAU_pR4DViMh7bKBhJ35a94VHU7GR4Vh_mXKaYwtbhwnRJWR8gVkvYjmB2CjTOIxJE52bNN1-82_fpYopX-kZQntDkR4OKjvj-b1AV9yXlGQ3A-eGFbtuCb0_1t2R9tgZ5MqgMbzxGQKIf78I2U_xq8a9qYywx3_OgfQwbeMgd8fiatdC5CbUSlphDlQfSDw9sOErejC7z/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.itnews.com.au%2Fnews%2Fwa-insurance-commission-decommissions-mainframe-322780 > > > > > >> Get BlueMail for Android< > > > https://secure-web.cisco.com/1bcgENTOsK8XbQ24q-R3ISXJI_yYDqxq2wHDg7brpU3Np08gk-JU47Zv8dYAGOAWnxVTv-NWRXAx9s4JTmUJU07wHFT67zaiAPG32upxzSYnSiKIM6O3YI79ZGti7V-QdCWRtiBxOjLh3oMxNvzCcJgTTW-HQmmeQii1zDdP-GC1Rs0umn7xhevV0-PazdAun8gOm5P8Ld_gCw2UojSyXNKZKfmsqJPnt96XgISsJy9-_K81O2L5O-GDW2nxM7_C00lPjk0sF0iNqPQKNZAhVr0kk4TCoT4ePDBbBBUCUw6KfhxpkkhmUuo549OfnVRHweKCGYhEm5WE9nw-5khsn01oqKJxbv_y6P4BrO5DGw0QG7NfYwbUflAaNRV_ljL51KqrNoQV0AdEetiWauYmab1O_GjVvCOudxDs52JwrFXbWBbqEqxhU7qQ3TS--F13f/https%3A%2F%2Fbluemail.me > > > > > >> On Jun 18, 2022, at 5:13 PM, Charles Mills <[email protected]<mailto: > > [email protected]>> wrote: > > >> > > >> I always like the stories about the companies that are in the eighth > > year of > > >> a three-year project to get off the mainframe. > > >> > > >> Enzo, my friend, you have just kicked the hornets' nest! You had > better > > >> duck, because the onslaught is coming. "The mainframe is [not] dead" > is > > near > > >> and dear to the hearts of IBM-MAINers. > > >> > > >> Yes, I think the consensus is that the mainframe has a future. IBM > > seems to > > >> be focused mainly on the very largest shops, so the trend seems to be > > bigger > > >> and bigger machines at fewer and fewer companies. But it is hard to > > envision > > >> Bank of America balancing their checking accounts every day on an > array > > of > > >> Windows servers, in their datacenter or in the cloud. My reading of > the > > tea > > >> leaves -- I am not an insider -- is that for a long time IBM was > > *saying* > > >> the mainframe was here to stay but internally they did not believe it > > and > > >> were not making decisions on that basis -- but I think that has now > > changed. > > >> IBM appears to have made a HUGE investment in the z16, an investment > > that > > >> will take more than 5 or more years to recoup. > > >> > > >> Welcome aboard! > > >> > > >> Charles > > >> > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[email protected]] > > On > > >> Behalf Of Enzo D'Amato > > >> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2022 1:56 PM > > >> To: [email protected] > > >> Subject: Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with > IBM > > and > > >> AWS > > >> > > >> As someone who is new to this field, and hasn't been though a wave of > > "the > > >> mainframe is going away" yet, will there still be companies running > the > > >> mainframe 5 or 10 years down the line? Also, when I read about > companies > > >> trying to get off of the mainframe, how often do these efforts end up > > >> succeeding? > > >> ________________________________ > > >> > > >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <[email protected]> on > > behalf of > > >> Mike Schwab <[email protected]> > > >> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2022 12:04 AM > > >> To: [email protected] > > >> Subject: Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with > IBM > > and > > >> AWS > > >> > > >> Moshix signed up for an AWS instance, loaded up Hercules and Turnkey > > >> 4-, got it going, and allowed some other people to log in. > > >> > > >> On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 8:31 AM Bill Johnson > > >> <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > >> Cloud - Something the mainframe has been doing for decades. We > > called it > > >> outsourcing. GM ran their entire organization out of mainframes in > > >> Charlotte, Dallas, & perhaps another in the 80's. The internet just > > made it > > >> easier, and less secure & reliable. Brought outsourcing to a wider > > audience. > > >> > > >> Mainframe modernization. An oxymoron. Like saying today's cars are > > like > > >> cars from 50 years ago. The mainframe is more advanced than any other > > >> platforms. Billions of dollars of investment and patented technologies > > have > > >> guaranteed its place for decades to come. > > >> > > >> Sure, AWS, Azure, Oracle cloud & numerous others are creating > cheap, > > >> unsecured, unreliable, platforms for small businesses, picture > storage, > > >> emails, instant messaging, and many other tasks that aren't show > > stoppers if > > >> they're hacked or down for one of many reasons. As Capital One found > > out and > > >> lost almost 200 million for the pleasure. > > >> > > >> I enjoy the glee that many of you exude when IBM has what might be > > >> perceived as negative news. I saw the same glee when in the 90's some > > idiot > > >> said the mainframe would be history circa 2000. > > >> > > >> > > >> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > > >> > > >> > > >> On Friday, June 17, 2022, 9:06 AM, zMan <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > >> > > >> On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 5:50 AM David Crayford < > [email protected]> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >> Maybe it's the case that customers don't want to use IBMs cloud. > > Where I > > >> live in Australia the big four banks are moving significant chunks > of > > >> their infrastructure to public cloud and have government > legislation > > to > > >> do so. NAB in particular have been quite aggressive, although like > > most > > >> sensible enterprises they have gone down the multi-cloud route with > > >> Microsoft Azure so they don't have all their eggs in one basket. > > >> > > >> It will be interesting to see if IBM can close the cloud gap. > Playing > > >> catch-up is difficult when competing with behemoths with a decade+ > > head > > >> start. > > >> > > >> > > >> Indeed. Word from insiders is that since IBM "management" have > > decided > > >> cloud is The Answer, folks have started playing games, like > > attributing > > >> all > > >> CICS-related revenue as "cloud". Q4 2020, IBM claimed $6.2B in > cloud > > >> revenue on total revenue of $16B. Given that nobody EVER > says"cloud" > > and > > >> "IBM" in the same sentence in the real world, those numbers are > quite > > >> difficult to believe without this kind of gameplaying. > > >> > > >> ________________________________ > > >> > > >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > >> send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO > > IBM-MAIN > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> ________________________________ > > >> > > >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > >> send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO > > IBM-MAIN > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA > > >> Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? > > >> > > >> ________________________________ > > >> > > >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > >> send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO > IBM-MAIN > > >> > > >> ________________________________ > > >> > > >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > >> send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO > IBM-MAIN > > >> > > >> ________________________________ > > >> > > >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > >> send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO > IBM-MAIN > > >> > > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > >> send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO > IBM-MAIN > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > > send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > > send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
