Sorry, but I agree to disagree. The panels can have the effect of making
staff FAR more efficient than learning command line TSO even for RACF.
I can use them both, but I started in RACF way before there were any
dialogs. Rather than "laziness" think efficiency.
I prefer 3.2 to typing "allocate ....." to define a PDS.
Especially given today's upcoming new "sysprogs."
And I and my staff at one place designed and implemented a dialog to
clone the res. Still works today. WAY more efficient. But I can build a
res by hand if I have to.
Some of the most challenged sysprogs I ever dealt with were ones that
thought that the command line was the only thing used by "real"
sysprogs. They felt so superior, and made soooo many errors.
I like command line in Unix too, but I gotta admit, I love Filezilla for
FTP's.
Amazing. Never really one answer.
Doug
Doug Fuerst
------ Original Message ------
From: "David Spiegel" <00000468385049d1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Sent: 21-Feb-23 12:47:32
Subject: Re: How long for an experiened z/OS sysprog to come up to speed
on a new environment?
Hi Doug,
I consider relying on ISPF Panels *solely* negative, especially when SysProgs
should learn the Command Line, in particular for RACF Commands. This is a sign
of laziness.
I've also been in jobs where I maintained/added to ISPF Applications to e.g. create a z/OS Clone,
where the user fills in the "from" and "to" DASD addresses and the ISPF
application does the rest.
BTW, I am referring negatively to people who rely upon ISPF Panels *and* have
never heard of CBT.
There is no need to get offended.
Regards,
David
On 2023-02-21 12:13, Doug wrote:
So David, you consider using ISPF panels a net negative? I used to write
dialogs for anything repetitive that I or anyone else had to do.
Never thought it was bad if "people in charge are by-the-book mentality and I can
imagine them using ISPF Panels for everything from RACF to SMP/e." Especially when I
was the person in charge. And I knew what the CBT tape was and is....
Doug Fuerst
------ Original Message ------
From: "David Spiegel" <00000468385049d1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Sent: 21-Feb-23 6:09:15
Subject: Re: How long for an experiened z/OS sysprog to come up to speed on a
new environment?
Hi Brian,
You said: "...so why would they question my use of anything I need in order to
perform my job efficiently? ..."
My answer is that the people in charge are by-the-book mentality and I can
imagine them using ISPF Panels for everything from RACF to SMP/e.
(At one of my jobs, the MVS Team Lead said : "CBT??? ... never heard of it"
(This guy has been an MVS Systems Programmer for more than 30 years.))
These same people eschew creativity in any form, because, they're scared due to
ignorance.
Regards,
David
On 2023-02-21 00:31, Brian Westerman wrote:
I think that's a pretty invalid point. I don't see anyone questioning how to
write an exit or install a new system, or use SMPe, so why would they question
my use of anything I need in order to perform my job efficiently?
Maybe it's just that they all assume I must know what I'm doing. If they
didn't believe that, I doubt they would have asked me to do the project.
Brian
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