IBM has said that what I'm experiencing is working as it's currently designed. 
They are discussing internally whether it's a good design however. They agree 
that it's poor behavior for JES2 to stop coming up when it can't allocate a 
SUBMITLIB. Film at 11.

Mark Jacobs 


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------- Original Message -------
On Wednesday, May 10th, 2023 at 8:40 AM, Mark Jacobs 
<[email protected]> wrote:


> I added that to the top of COMMNDxx. JES2 is also started there. In our 
> sandbox it didn't work. I'd need to get the automation team to get involved 
> to have it trap the OMVS is active message then start JES2. Unless some other 
> engineering teams express an interest in SUBMITLIBs in a file system I'm not 
> going to do anything else at this point.
> 
> I'm still going to pursue the case with IBM though.
> 
> Mark Jacobs
> 
> Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.
> 
> GPG Public Key - 
> https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get&[email protected]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------- Original Message -------
> On Wednesday, May 10th, 2023 at 8:14 AM, Allan Staller 
> [email protected] wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > Classification: Confidential
> > 
> > Issue the command in COMMNDxx or your System Automation product.
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [email protected] On Behalf Of 
> > Mark Jacobs
> > 
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2023 7:12 AM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: JES2 Submitlib Bootstrap problem
> > 
> > [CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you trust the 
> > sender, Don't click links or open attachments as it may be a Phishing 
> > email, which can steal your Information and compromise your Computer.]
> > 
> > How do you start OMVS SUB=MSTR? I'm not seeing any start command in parmlib.
> > 
> > Mark Jacobs
> > 
> > Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.
> > 
> > GPG Public Key - 
> > https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get&[email protected]
> > 
> > ------- Original Message -------
> > On Wednesday, May 10th, 2023 at 7:58 AM, Allan Staller 
> > [email protected] wrote:
> > 
> > > Classification: Confidential
> > > 
> > > OMVS can be started as SUB=MSTR or as a JES task. Che choice is up to the 
> > > installation.
> > > Ditto for ZFS.
> > > 
> > > What is really being implied is that if JES2 needs OMVS services, it
> > > should not provide those services until OMVS has initialized,
> > > 
> > > Many other tasks do this (e.g. TSO).
> > > 
> > > My USD $0.02
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [email protected] On Behalf
> > > Of Pommier, Rex
> > > 
> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 9, 2023 11:21 AM
> > > To: [email protected]
> > > Subject: Re: JES2 Submitlib Bootstrap problem
> > > 
> > > [CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you
> > > trust the sender, Don't click links or open attachments as it may be a
> > > Phishing email, which can steal your Information and compromise your
> > > Computer.]
> > > 
> > > I see a problem with this scenario. It appears to me that there is a call 
> > > (not necessarily by Shmuel) to potentially have JES2 wait for OMVS to be 
> > > up before it does its startup (or at least completes the startup). Due to 
> > > a self-inflicted screw-up on one of our LPARs, OMVS decided it had to do 
> > > a filesystem check on every filesystem on the system. This took a good 
> > > half hour where it simply appeared our LPAR was hung. JES2 had come up 
> > > and I was able to start a few address spaces that are dependent on JES so 
> > > I could figure out what was going on. Had JES been waiting for OMVS we 
> > > would have been completely in the dark on this issue.
> > > 
> > > I could see there being communication between JES and OMVS so that when 
> > > OMVS gets initialized it signals JES to redrive any failed zFS 
> > > allocations, but don't force JES to wait until zFS is available.
> > > 
> > > My $.02.
> > > 
> > > Rex
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [email protected] On Behalf
> > > Of Seymour J Metz
> > > 
> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 9, 2023 10:10 AM
> > > To: [email protected]
> > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: JES2 Submitlib Bootstrap problem
> > > 
> > > Yes, IBM absolutely should take startup sequence into account and should 
> > > provide mechanisms to ensure that things occur in the proper order. This 
> > > goes beyond OMVS.
> > > 
> > > --
> > > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> > > https://urld/
> > > efense.com%2Fv3%2F__http%3A%2F%2Fmason.gmu.edu%2F*smetz3__%3Bfg!!KjMRP
> > > 1Ixj6eLE0Fj!oLVba7cIWA-HvwL4aaVssbMaEZeCG3m_dnLPJgpEL8DOiFs5DAJaoVf27k
> > > YVUZyYy_Nw7UxsOVp6sogwmA%24&data=05%7C01%7Callan.staller%40HCL.COM%7Cb
> > > 415b6f48fe746065c5808db514fd81b%7C189de737c93a4f5a8b686f4ca9941912%7C0
> > > %7C0%7C638193175624293681%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAi
> > > LCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=2
> > > n3vNh3L5fxsleOK2Cv6N8JNUGJ%2FrUJCmfa4FqFNZDc%3D&reserved=0
> > > 
> > > ________________________________________
> > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [[email protected]] on
> > > behalf of Paul Gilmartin
> > > [[email protected]]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 9, 2023 11:01 AM
> > > To: [email protected]
> > > Subject: Re: JES2 Submitlib Bootstrap problem
> > > 
> > > On Tue, 9 May 2023 12:18:11 +0000, Mark Jacobs wrote:
> > > 
> > > > I defined several submitlibs in my JES2PARM to use directories in a ZFS 
> > > > filesystem. When I hotstart JES2, JES2 can find everything and is 
> > > > happy. During IPL/JES2 startup it's not. It doesn't seem like OMVS is 
> > > > initialized yet and so the file systems aren't accessible for JES2 to 
> > > > resolve. I haven't fully analyzed the system log to confirm it yet, but 
> > > > it seems like a reasonable assumption. Has anyone else run into this?
> > > 
> > > WAD? z/OS UNIX appears to be a second-class citizen in that operations 
> > > that require UNIX facilities are allowed to begin before UNIX is 
> > > available, then simply fail.
> > > 
> > > Should design give more attention to the order of startup operations?
> > > 
> > > Should there be an implied WAIT (not explicit) for any operation which 
> > > requires UNIX? Would that be likely to result in a deadlock?
> > > 
> > > --
> > > gil
> > > 
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