Can't speak for anyone else, but I usually just take (or turn down) the first 
offer, mostly I think out of poor self-image.  Not sure why, because I don't 
mind dickering over a car.

The only exception I can remember off-hand is when a consulting company that 
employed me was looking to cut costs, and asked that I go independent and start 
invoicing them rather than being a W-2.  They offered me the same rate I'd been 
making as an employee, which wasn't going to work for me if they stopped paying 
me for bench time.  But mostly I say "$65/hr?  Yeah, I can do that".  Shameful, 
I know.

This, by the way, is one of those differences I had in mind when I said Yankee 
and Indian recruiters approach the negotiation differently.  American companies 
have a definite range in mind and aren't usually shy about stating it in the 
opening email.  (Although I wouldn't be surprised if they give the lower part 
of the range, knowing they can raise it if they run across a really attractive 
candidate.)  Indian companies don’t usually state the range up front; instead I 
see "please send us your resume and your lowest rate...".  Different 
assumptions about the way the process should work, I suppose.

---
Bob Bridges, [email protected], cell 336 382-7313

/* The cure for boredom is curiosity.  There is no cure for curiosity.  
-Dorothy Parker */

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <[email protected]> On Behalf Of 
Seymour J Metz
Sent: Saturday, December 2, 2023 13:05

How many programmers negotiate when a recruiter contacts them with a lowball 
offer, and how many just move it to the circular file? When I'm looking for 
people, I don't want to scare away good candidates with an offer that might 
offend them; I ask "What are you looking for?".

________________________________________
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <[email protected]> on behalf of Bob 
Bridges <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, December 2, 2023 12:01 AM

....On the other hand maybe it's just a negotiating tactic.  There are several 
differences in the way Indian and Yankee recruiters approach me (and I assume 
everyone else too); maybe lowballing is just one of the ways they're used to 
doing business, with the assumption that they'll have to go higher to actually 
close the deal.

...$125/hr, really?  I should maybe pay more attention to the advice a fellow 
contractor gave me a couple decades ago.  I was working for ... well, 
apparently you would regard it as peanuts although it's always been adequate 
for me.  But Joe said I should demand $250/hr.  I'd work only about a third of 
the time, but since that's about three times what I typically was getting, it 
would come out even - and in the slack periods I could work on some saleable 
project.  I understood what he was saying; I just couldn't find a way to say 
"$250/hr" with a straight face.

Maybe that's a common foible.  My ex made really high-end decorated cakes, the 
sort that we saw going for $150 and up at state fairs; but she couldn't bring 
herself to ask more for her work than the cost of materials.  She just couldn't 
believe her work was worth it.

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <[email protected]> On Behalf Of 
Tony Harminc
Sent: Friday, December 1, 2023 17:37

I interpreted Bob's comment "...I think the rate is unusual; I'm guessing they 
don't think they can get one of their regulars to do it."  as meaning he 
thought it (60-65 $/hr) was high.

But I agree that finding someone with serious assembler chops for that price 
isn't going to be easy. $65/hour sounds much more like an all-in 
employee-with-benefits kind of rate back-calculated from a salary.

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <[email protected]> On Behalf Of 
Farley, Peter
Sent: Friday, December 1, 2023 16:31

Agreed, very low.  I asked for and received $125/hr back in 1999 for a complex 
assembler consulting job (BTAM / BDAM / multitasking / etc).   With inflation 
and time passing the starting rate for that kind of work has to go over $200/hr 
at the very least to attract anyone with the talent and experience.

If it is a truly junior position though, say maintaining and perhaps 
documenting old single-function utility ASM subroutines, that might not be a 
terrible starting point to negotiate upwards.  Anything more complicated than 
that, start the negotiation higher, or much higher depending on the actual work 
to be done.

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <[email protected]> On Behalf Of 
Mike Shaw
Sent: Friday, December 1, 2023 16:15

Gotta be low...

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <[email protected]> On Behalf Of 
Gord Tomlin
Sent: Friday, December 1, 2023 15:24

--- On 2023-12-01 14:14 PM, Bob Bridges wrote:
Pure curiosity: unusually low or unusually high?

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 1, 2023 14:14

I have a req here from Enterprise solutions for an assembler programmer, paying 
"60-65 $/hr" on corp-to-corp.  Anyone wanted a copy, let me know and I'll pass 
it on.

I've never done business with this recruiter but I think the rate is unusual; 
I'm guessing they don't think they can get one of their regulars to do it.

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