Maybe we should ask for residuals for our creative property like actors.
We give it all away too easily.
What would happen if we all went on strike?
Interesting thought....
Doug Fuerst
------ Original Message ------
From "Bob Bridges" <robhbrid...@gmail.com>
To IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Date 12/2/2023 15:30:51 PM
Subject Re: Assembler programmer wanted
>Can't speak for anyone else, but I usually just take (or turn down) the
first offer, mostly I think out of poor self-image. Not sure why, because
I don't mind dickering over a car.
>
>The only exception I can remember off-hand is when a consulting company
that employed me was looking to cut costs, and asked that I go independent
and start invoicing them rather than being a W-2. They offered me the same
rate I'd been making as an employee, which wasn't going to work for me if
they stopped paying me for bench time. But mostly I say "$65/hr? Yeah, I
can do that". Shameful, I know.
>
>This, by the way, is one of those differences I had in mind when I said
Yankee and Indian recruiters approach the negotiation differently.
American companies have a definite range in mind and aren't usually shy
about stating it in the opening email. (Although I wouldn't be surprised
if they give the lower part of the range, knowing they can raise it if they
run across a really attractive candidate.) Indian companies don’t usually
state the range up front; instead I see "please send us your resume and
your lowest rate...". Different assumptions about the way the process
should work, I suppose.
>
>---
>Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313
>
>/* The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity.
-Dorothy Parker */
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf
Of Seymour J Metz
>Sent: Saturday, December 2, 2023 13:05
>
>How many programmers negotiate when a recruiter contacts them with a
lowball offer, and how many just move it to the circular file? When I'm
looking for people, I don't want to scare away good candidates with an
offer that might offend them; I ask "What are you looking for?".
>
>________________________________________
>From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> on behalf
of Bob Bridges <robhbrid...@gmail.com>
>Sent: Saturday, December 2, 2023 12:01 AM
>
>....On the other hand maybe it's just a negotiating tactic. There are
several differences in the way Indian and Yankee recruiters approach me
(and I assume everyone else too); maybe lowballing is just one of the ways
they're used to doing business, with the assumption that they'll have to go
higher to actually close the deal.
>
>...$125/hr, really? I should maybe pay more attention to the advice a
fellow contractor gave me a couple decades ago. I was working for ...
well, apparently you would regard it as peanuts although it's always been
adequate for me. But Joe said I should demand $250/hr. I'd work only
about a third of the time, but since that's about three times what I
typically was getting, it would come out even - and in the slack periods I
could work on some saleable project. I understood what he was saying; I
just couldn't find a way to say "$250/hr" with a straight face.
>
>Maybe that's a common foible. My ex made really high-end decorated
cakes, the sort that we saw going for $150 and up at state fairs; but she
couldn't bring herself to ask more for her work than the cost of
materials. She just couldn't believe her work was worth it.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf
Of Tony Harminc
>Sent: Friday, December 1, 2023 17:37
>
>I interpreted Bob's comment "...I think the rate is unusual; I'm guessing
they don't think they can get one of their regulars to do it." as meaning
he thought it (60-65 $/hr) was high.
>
>But I agree that finding someone with serious assembler chops for that
price isn't going to be easy. $65/hour sounds much more like an all-in
employee-with-benefits kind of rate back-calculated from a salary.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf
Of Farley, Peter
>Sent: Friday, December 1, 2023 16:31
>
>Agreed, very low. I asked for and received $125/hr back in 1999 for a
complex assembler consulting job (BTAM / BDAM / multitasking / etc). With
inflation and time passing the starting rate for that kind of work has to
go over $200/hr at the very least to attract anyone with the talent and
experience.
>
>If it is a truly junior position though, say maintaining and perhaps
documenting old single-function utility ASM subroutines, that might not be
a terrible starting point to negotiate upwards. Anything more complicated
than that, start the negotiation higher, or much higher depending on the
actual work to be done.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf
Of Mike Shaw
>Sent: Friday, December 1, 2023 16:15
>
>Gotta be low...
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf
Of Gord Tomlin
>Sent: Friday, December 1, 2023 15:24
>
>--- On 2023-12-01 14:14 PM, Bob Bridges wrote:
>Pure curiosity: unusually low or unusually high?
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: robhbrid...@gmail.com <robhbrid...@gmail.com>
>Sent: Friday, December 1, 2023 14:14
>
>I have a req here from Enterprise solutions for an assembler programmer,
paying "60-65 $/hr" on corp-to-corp. Anyone wanted a copy, let me know and
I'll pass it on.
>
>I've never done business with this recruiter but I think the rate is
unusual; I'm guessing they don't think they can get one of their regulars
to do it.
>
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