Maybe we should ask for residuals for our creative property like actors.
We give it all away too easily.
What would happen if we all went on strike?
Interesting thought....
Doug Fuerst
------ Original Message ------
From "Bob Bridges" <robhbrid...@gmail.com>
To IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Date 12/2/2023 15:30:51 PM
Subject Re: Assembler programmer wanted
Can't speak for anyone else, but I usually just take (or turn down) the first
offer, mostly I think out of poor self-image. Not sure why, because I don't
mind dickering over a car.
The only exception I can remember off-hand is when a consulting company that employed me
was looking to cut costs, and asked that I go independent and start invoicing them rather
than being a W-2. They offered me the same rate I'd been making as an employee, which
wasn't going to work for me if they stopped paying me for bench time. But mostly I say
"$65/hr? Yeah, I can do that". Shameful, I know.
This, by the way, is one of those differences I had in mind when I said Yankee and Indian
recruiters approach the negotiation differently. American companies have a definite
range in mind and aren't usually shy about stating it in the opening email. (Although I
wouldn't be surprised if they give the lower part of the range, knowing they can raise it
if they run across a really attractive candidate.) Indian companies don’t usually state
the range up front; instead I see "please send us your resume and your lowest
rate...". Different assumptions about the way the process should work, I suppose.
---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313
/* The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity.
-Dorothy Parker */
-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf Of
Seymour J Metz
Sent: Saturday, December 2, 2023 13:05
How many programmers negotiate when a recruiter contacts them with a lowball offer, and
how many just move it to the circular file? When I'm looking for people, I don't want to
scare away good candidates with an offer that might offend them; I ask "What are you
looking for?".
________________________________________
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> on behalf of Bob
Bridges <robhbrid...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 2, 2023 12:01 AM
....On the other hand maybe it's just a negotiating tactic. There are several
differences in the way Indian and Yankee recruiters approach me (and I assume
everyone else too); maybe lowballing is just one of the ways they're used to
doing business, with the assumption that they'll have to go higher to actually
close the deal.
...$125/hr, really? I should maybe pay more attention to the advice a fellow contractor
gave me a couple decades ago. I was working for ... well, apparently you would regard it
as peanuts although it's always been adequate for me. But Joe said I should demand
$250/hr. I'd work only about a third of the time, but since that's about three times
what I typically was getting, it would come out even - and in the slack periods I could
work on some saleable project. I understood what he was saying; I just couldn't find a
way to say "$250/hr" with a straight face.
Maybe that's a common foible. My ex made really high-end decorated cakes, the
sort that we saw going for $150 and up at state fairs; but she couldn't bring
herself to ask more for her work than the cost of materials. She just couldn't
believe her work was worth it.
-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf Of
Tony Harminc
Sent: Friday, December 1, 2023 17:37
I interpreted Bob's comment "...I think the rate is unusual; I'm guessing they don't
think they can get one of their regulars to do it." as meaning he thought it (60-65
$/hr) was high.
But I agree that finding someone with serious assembler chops for that price
isn't going to be easy. $65/hour sounds much more like an all-in
employee-with-benefits kind of rate back-calculated from a salary.
-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf Of
Farley, Peter
Sent: Friday, December 1, 2023 16:31
Agreed, very low. I asked for and received $125/hr back in 1999 for a complex
assembler consulting job (BTAM / BDAM / multitasking / etc). With inflation
and time passing the starting rate for that kind of work has to go over $200/hr
at the very least to attract anyone with the talent and experience.
If it is a truly junior position though, say maintaining and perhaps
documenting old single-function utility ASM subroutines, that might not be a
terrible starting point to negotiate upwards. Anything more complicated than
that, start the negotiation higher, or much higher depending on the actual work
to be done.
-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf Of
Mike Shaw
Sent: Friday, December 1, 2023 16:15
Gotta be low...
-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf Of
Gord Tomlin
Sent: Friday, December 1, 2023 15:24
--- On 2023-12-01 14:14 PM, Bob Bridges wrote:
Pure curiosity: unusually low or unusually high?
-----Original Message-----
From: robhbrid...@gmail.com <robhbrid...@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, December 1, 2023 14:14
I have a req here from Enterprise solutions for an assembler programmer, paying
"60-65 $/hr" on corp-to-corp. Anyone wanted a copy, let me know and I'll pass
it on.
I've never done business with this recruiter but I think the rate is unusual;
I'm guessing they don't think they can get one of their regulars to do it.
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