Discussing a GUI is appropriate. Arguing about whether Python or REXX is better isn’t. As for signature BS, I wasn’t the initiator of it.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Wednesday, July 10, 2024, 11:44 AM, Doug Fuerst <[email protected]> wrote: Here's the thing: A GUI discussion is relevant for this forum. We are entitled to discuss the technical issues with GUI's. We should not be involving political and religious fodder (including stupid Sig messages from Obi Wan Kenobi, etc.) to the forum. For example, if you have SA you can use SMU (System Management Unite.) I am still trying to get this installed and available to see what it can do. Can it replace the Netview GUI? ZWS? Omegamon TEPS? Is one better than the other? What advantages are there to each? These are valid discussions in this forum. They do NOT rise to the level of political/religious issues. So can we keep it that way? Doug Fuerst ------ Original Message ------ >From "Tom Longfellow" <[email protected]> To [email protected] Date 7/10/2024 10:22:45 AM Subject Re: another z/OSMF rant. -- Catch-22 is killing me >Discussions about z/OSMF (or GUIs in general) can now join the list of topics >like politics and religion. Lots of yelling back and forth to defend your >beliefs. >You will not change the other persons mind no matter what reasoning you use. >The opposing side is using arguments with assumptions and facts with which you >do not agree. > >As the victim down here where the rubber meets the road, I am just asking >questions. Why? Why is it there? Didn't the prior way do the job? What is >so much better under a GUI? (GUI worshippers never even think about that >one). Why are the tools now more complicated that the things they support? > >All GUIs are a front end to something else. Eventually, you may have to go >directly to the something else to get your mission accomplished. >This is not new. COBOL , C and all HLLs are all front end to assembler >statements. Assember is a front end to machine code. Machine code makes the >bytes move. > >You are not going to win friends and influence people by building a new >multi-part monster that front-ends the basic function. > >I drank the Kool-Aid back in September and installed z/OS 2.5 using the >workflows. It could build a working z/OS system. However, that system could >not assume the functions performed by the current system. There is a great >wide world beyond the cult compound of the IBM install process. Local exits. >Vendor products. Networking. Automation. All have impacts on being able to >keep your job.. > >The answer I get back is to build your own workflows and add them to the GUI >Frankenstein's monster. My brief forway into building, testing and >implementing services and workflows for local customizations had such a >learning code that I could not see finishing my new install in under 6 months. > My decades of local experience building repeatable, reusable JCL can >complete an end to end full function installation in less that a working week. > >To give them 'some' credit, I can see some potential benefit if I was managing >a planet wide SYSPLEX and installing portable system software instances 50 >times a year. I perform a new install every 2 to 3 years on two mainframes in >the USA. This is done with me and the 'other guy'. I do not have a standby >cadre of experts on Liberty, JAVA, HTTPS, and the rest of the GUI world. > >The 'not quite Silver' lining is that it will all be over for me soon. No, I >am not dying, But I have watched the death of 3 mainframes in the past year >with more to come in the next year. I am old enough to retire and will >probably do so. > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
