Well, like a busted clock, Bill isn't wrong *every* time. The thinking is that 
since Kids Today expect GUIs, having one will make z/OS more attractive/usable 
for them. That's probably not wrong: y'all use ISPF, right? That's a GUI, such 
as they were circa 1980. Why do you use it? Because it's more productive: it 
makes stuff easier for you. Same argument will apply to that PFSK who takes 
over after you and I stroke out in front of our 3270 emulators.

I believe the questions are, as I implied in my earlier post:

1) Is z/OSMF usable as a GUI--that is, is it sufficiently functional to solve 
the problem? It *seems* like the answer may be "no". But I admit I have not 
touched it (I don’t need to--yet).

2) Is z/OS even GUI-able without major structural changes? DOS really wasn't. 
As we know, it went from "Here's a shell on top of DOS" to "Here's Windows, 
with a DOS "command prompt" emulator available". That's a fundamental 
difference. Does z/OS need that level of change? I suspect so, especially since 
so much is non-standard nowadays--there's no "All the parmlib stuff is always 
in SYS1.PARMLIB" the say "All .ini files are in C:\Windows". Heck, that's so 
ingrained that any of you who ever had a Windows machine with Windows on some 
drive other than C will recall various products that absolutely would not 
work...and that's *with* that standardization!

I'd like z/OSMF to be The Answer. I'm just not convinced that the folks driving 
it understand the challenge or have the resources/vision to meet it. I hope I'm 
wrong.

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Tom 
Longfellow
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2024 9:05 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: another z/OSMF rant. -- Catch-22 is killing me

In what way does z/OSMF make zOS more viable?   The new crowd of fresh young 
bucks will have to learn 'something' in order to work with zOS.  Why does it 
have to be an 'abstraction' layer isolating them from the down and dirty 
details to get a working system.
Right now, their "viability" tool has me dead in the water.  Unable to do my 
JOB.   Sooner or later someone will notice and it will be another nail in the 
casket of zOS and IBM.

Oh sure, GUIs are cool looking and sexy.  We are finishing up year 25+ of a 5 
year plan to get off the mainframe.   It was sold to the money men with a few 
prototype panels of how the GUI might work.    The only techincal detail they 
were concerned with was "When can we have it".     I contend that the total 
costs of the grand networks of interelated servers costs way more than the 
costs on our mainframe.   But, sturdy work horse don't look the same as 
thoroughbreds.  Pretty pictures win the day.

I guess I am not buying into current thinking.   like "If you CAN encrypt, you 
MUST encrypt" , "If it CAN look like Windows, it MUST look like Windows"

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