Brian,

Interesting story. I have to ask: given that at that point you had evidence
that they were running unlicensed code, why not just send them a bill? The
unspoken "next call will be from our lawyer" might should be convincing, no?

On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 9:27 PM, Brian Westerman <
[email protected]> wrote:

> If someone violates a copyright, there are legal and I think criminal
> penalties.  But I doubt the FBI will get involved if you decided not to pay
> CA for using Panvalet.
>
> You can't over simplify the issue and decide categorically that all
> vendors that want to "protect" their software are bad.  Just like people,
> there are indeed some bad vendors, whether or not they have product
> "protection" doesn't enter into the equation.
>
> How would a vendor even know that someone didn't take a "personal" copy of
> their unprotected code from site A to site B?  Does that happen, it sure
> does.
>
> Microsoft did a study several years back on how much time they spent
> fixing problems and helping people who had pirated copies of their code,
> and it was something on the order of 38%.  That didn't mean that 38% of the
> people running Windows were running pirated copies, just that during their
> study, 38% of the people who called gave pirated copy codes.
>
> They were losing more money on the support of the code for the pirated
> versions than was deemed "acceptable".  The same problem can (and likely
> is) true for other vendors.  Several of our Syzygy products come with parts
> that are not protected by keys or code.  We frequently get calls from
> people who are not out customers to fix (usually the same problem over and
> over again) problems with the unprotected code who are not very happy when
> we inform them that we can't offer them support for the code without them
> being an actual client, but that doesn't stop them from trying.
>
> We had a person, just a few months ago, (who is a member of this list and
> knows who I am talking about), who called with a "problem" for our SyzInfo
> program (it's a small program we send to sites to display their site
> information, CPU, LPAR, SYSPLEX, MEMORY info, etc., a lot of interesting
> information) because they just got a z13 and our code supposedly didn't
> support it yet.  It worked, but didn't give "completely valid" results.  We
> actually added support for the box over 18 months before it came out, so we
> were fairly perplexed.  When asked for his site-ID, he gave it, (it turned
> out to be one from his old site) and we emailed him the new code for his
> whole product matrix (4 complete products and support modules).  Then we
> received a call from him to tell us that the new products would "no longer"
> operate on his CPU.  When we asked for the CPU type and serial, he gave us
> his old serial from the old shop, so the client support people re-verified
> and sent out a new copy even though there was no real changes made.  He
> told us that it still didn't work so we asked him to execute SyzInfo and
> send a screen print of the results.  Instead of the screen print, he
> "supposedly" cut/pasted the results which showed that the product thought
> exactly what was running was what we shipped.  He escalated the problem
> (which sent it to me), to be resolved, and I asked him to re-execute
> SyzInfo for the screen print and got the same cut/paste thing, but it was
> different from the original one he sent the day before.  The new one had
> several of the values transposed and the CPU was now a EC12 not a z13 as he
> had originally reported having the problem with in the first place.  I
> called him and got one of his co-workers who told me that they were not
> running our code, and he had no idea what I was talking about.  It turned
> out that they were running a z13 and never had a EC12 (they upgraded from a
> z10 recently).  I explained what had just happened and was told that he
> would talk to his boss and that they would handle the "problem".
>
> We never heard back from the person or that site again, but they still
> participate on this site.  When I contacted their old site to ask if things
> were okay, I was told that they were going great and they had no problems
> whatsoever, but that the person I was asking about no longer worked there
> and had not for well over 2 years.
>
> Now, I realize that it's just one occurrence of a bad person, which does
> not make every one bad, but in our case, we expended probably 30 man-hours
> of time on a problem that didn't even exist.  How many of those could a
> small company, or even a large one absorb?
>
> I would like to say this is a one-time occurrence, but I can't.  Similar
> events happen several times a year, but normally it doesn't get to me to
> fix because they discover much sooner that something was amiss.
>
> Our products have built-in protection, actually they all have 3 separate
> protection mechanisms.  We offer free trials that can go up to several
> months when necessary, and every product has a built-in allowance of extra
> time after the expiration date and we warn well in advance of the time
> left.  Some of the products even tell you every time they execute how many
> days are left, which of course can be turned off (except for the last 30
> days).
>
> Most vendors don't have a way to enforce voluntary compliance, but I
> believe that the vast majority of them have some sort of protection built
> into their products.  And while most people believe that IBM does not keep
> track of product use, they would be wrong.  Is it possible to get around
> the protections?  You bet.  We believe here, and I'm sure that most other
> vendors also believe, that he vast majority if not all of our clients are
> extremely trustworthy, and likewise we hope they think we are trustworthy
> as well.
>
> Wasn't it Ronald Reagan who said, "trust, but verify".  :)  Who would I be
> to argue with the great communicator?  I worked for him for 6 years, he was
> no dummy.
>
> So, I also agree that this shouldn't be another long drawn out fight over
> "to key or not to key", and I also realize that there are some sites who
> might not run our products because they are protected.  I don't think it's
> too many because we have over 700 clients.
>
> I realize this is going to sound facetious, but when I first read some of
> the rants from people complaining about how they are not trusted I can't
> help but wonder if they lock their homes and cars.  Do they put the WPA2
> passwords on their routers? Do they have a pin on their phone?  And if so,
> is it just that they believe that everyone should trust them, but they need
> not trust everyone else?
>
> I don't expect any non sarcastic responses to this, and I probably
> wouldn't read them anyway, (yes I will, but I probably won't admit it), but
> sometimes I wonder about how people can divide their lives up so simply and
> exactly that everyone else who doesn't do something "their way" is
> "wrong".  Is that a sure sign that I'm getting old that I have a hard time
> understanding why there seems to be no such thing as grey any more.  If
> you're not 100% "good" then you're "bad", or more likely, if you're not
> 100% "like me" then you're "bad".
>
> What happened to diversity?  And why get so virulent about it?
>
> Hopefully this won't start a full rant from anyone, but I'm sure it will,
> especially from the guy who I told you about above.
>
> Brian
>
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-- 
zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it"

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