Another starter-related question: Yesterday we were heading back from Catalina island, under power because the wind hadn't come up yet. We ran for about two hours and then shut it off because we thought we had some air. When the wind turned out to be too light we tried to re-fire the engine and got nothing - no crank, no click - nothing. As it happens the wind picked up and we started making good progress back home. As we approached the shore we tried the engine again and it started right up. I've heard of coils overheating and coming back online after they've cooled down. Would this happen with a starter as well? Thanks, Jim Little Portkey Catalina 27 TR San Pedro, CA
To: [email protected] From: [email protected] Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 00:42:07 -0700 Subject: RE: [IC27A] Starter Gremlins John, I just rebuilt a starter this afternoon. We have been doing the tap tap routine every few days for months waiting for the right day. This particular starter has an on-board solenoid that first throws the pinion gear to engage with the fly wheel and then a ring of copper on the plunger shorts two copper paddles to energize the motor. Both the ring and the paddles should have had flat surfaces but when I got it open the ring had a curved edge that looked the rolled edge of a Frisbee. The mating paddles (contacts) were half gone (thickness wise) with groves that matched the Frisbee edge. Whenever the Frisbee ring and grooved paddles misaligned instead of the ring reaching to the bottom of the grooves to energize the starter it would hang up on an edge and never fall in to make good contact. A couple of whacks with a mallet jars the solenoid plunger into a new alignment where it becomes a new roll of the dice and this time the Frisbee falls into the grove and the car starts. Fixing this starter was $16 and change plus a couple of days with a fingernail brush. Phil Agur s/v Wing Tip C270 LE #184 MMSI 366901790 From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of The Emmerichs Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 8:26 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [IC27A] Starter Gremlins Ralph, Finally got a chance to talk to the guy that was in the cabin past Wednesday. He said he heard the fuel pump clicking but nothing from the starter solenoid. I understand what you are saying about not enough voltage to cause the solenoid to throw or close. I couldn’t get to that wiring, think I’m going to have to get in the port locker to see those connections. I do have 13.8 volts where the large gauge wire connects to the solenoid. What I do not understand is why tapping on the starter a couple of times causes it to work. If the starter solenoid did not click, then the issue is in the solenoid or the wiring connections going to it. I didn’t hit the starter hard enough to vibrate everything back there. Maybe it was just hard enough to jiggle the wiring a little and remake the connection. I don’t recall a fuse back there but it’s been 5 or 6 years since I’ve had everything apart. We’re starting on a 40 mile trip to Madison IN Thursday afternoon. It will be an exciting moment every time I pull the starter switch. Send me the drawing when you have a chance. I did something similar on a Chevy van some years ago which would not start when it was run hard during hot weather. John Emmerich C27 TR Fortitude From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ralph Ahseln Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 8:07 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [IC27A] Starter Gremlins John, You didn't mention whether or not.. the starter Solenoid "Clicked" ..or not? If it didn't ... Before you take everything apart.. Check to see if the Starter Solenoid is getting enough voltage. It may be a very simple fix if, in fact, that is the case. The wiring harness connectors from the Key switch to the Solenoid are Famous for getting corrosion or being loose. That will reduce the voltage at the solenoid. This subject was covered a couple weeks ago. And, I'll offer my solution to you... You can check the solenoid by direct DC . There's probably an In-line fuse "Dangling" close to the starter. you can Kick over the starter by clipping on to that from a DC source. Here's a couple solutions ..IF.. the solenoid isn't getting enough from the Key/starter switch. 1. Rewire the line to the starter solenoid. A single new wire from the start switch to the Solenoid. It'll go to the other side of the In-line fuse. 2. (what I did).. Attach the old key/starter wire to a small Car type Relay. They will take voltages from quite low to over 12 volts. A new short wire from a good 12 volt DC source is then "Switched" by the car Relay to the Starter Solenoid. This can be installed in a protected spot in the engine compartment. The relay AND an added "Bump" switch are just inside the engine Hatch. And I have a second DC source on the Bump switch as well Bypassing the Car relay. All this not only solved the problem of a "Cranky" (pun intended) start, but allows me to start the engine while below. I can supply a drawing on request. As I say, This all hinges on whether or not it's indeed a Low voltage at the Starter Solenoid problem.. But, it is a common problem. Uniform Whisky, Ralph Ahseln "Oblio" Lying: Portland OR From: The Emmerichs Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 3:12 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [IC27A] Starter Gremlins Yesterday evening, we were going out to Wednesday races. I pulled on the starter knob for my M-18 diesel and nothing. I had good voltage on the batteries, the starter switch was good but no response from the starter. So we went to plan B, sit at the dock and drink a few beers. This morning I went out with the intention of pulling the starter and taking it to an auto electric shop. I decided to try a high tech fix before removing the alternator and oil filter to get at the starter. I took a large wrench and tapped the starter a couple of times. By now you can guess what happened, the starter and solenoid worked just fine, the engine cranked normally and started. I went through this same drill about 5 or 6 years ago. I took the starter to a shop, they checked it out and said both the starter and solenoid were fine. I told them to put a new solenoid on as that seem to me to be the most likely culprit. I’m sure that would be the same diagnostics if I took it back now. Any thoughts on this? I’m definitely not a starter mechanic. John Emmerich C27TR
