-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 9/22/09 12:10 PM, Adam Roach wrote: > On 9/18/09 14:02, Sep 18, Paul Wouters wrote: >> Pre-emptively excluding countries based on culture, (perceived) bias, >> or other non-technical and non-organisation arguments is wrong. So if the >> visa issues are not much worse then for other countries, and an internet >> connection not hampered by a Great Firewall, I see no reason to single >> out China. > > The majority of the conversation so far has related to a clause that we > will be forced to accept as a condition of meeting in China. It is not > directly related to their "culture" or "(perceived) bias." The > conversation would be equally valid (and probably contain many of the > same arguments) if we were being asked to make a substantially similar > agreement to meet in, say, Ireland. > > "Should the contents of the Group's activities, visual or audio > presentations at the conference, or printed materials used at the > conference (which are within the control of the Client) contain any > defamation against the Government of the Republic of Ireland, or > show any disrespect to Irish culture, or violate any laws of the > Republic of Ireland or feature any topics regarding human rights or > religion without prior approval from the Government of the Republic > of Ireland, the Hotel reserves the right to terminate the event on > the spot and/or ask the person(s) who initiates or participates in > any or all of the above action to leave the hotel premises immediately." > > > Could you imagine the uproar? Would it be anti-Irish sentiment? Or would > it be objecting to an unacceptable policy?
Thank you, Adam. I think it would be objecting to an unacceptable policy, because such a policy would inevitably result in self-censorship regarding topics that are directly related to our technical work (e.g., some IETF participants consider topics such as encryption to be matters of human rights). Furthermore, we simply cannot know much beforehand about the laws of the host country regarding freedom of speech (has the Republic of Ireland passed legislation that makes it a crime to speak disparagingly about redheads?). This is why I find the restriction about the contents of the group's activities, presentations, and printed materials violating the laws of the host country to be especially worrisome, because it is an extremely vague restriction that could be taken to cover anything presented (or perhaps even said) at a WG session, plenary, IESG or IAB meeting, etc. Would all slides and audio text to be presented need to be pre-approved by an IETF committee to ensure that the video or audio presentations do not violate any laws of the host country? How are we to know what those laws might be? We do a poor enough job of legal issues where we have some knowledge of the domain (IETF processes and procedures). Given that (1) such a committee or review process would quite simply be unworkable (most presenters don't even finish their slides until a day or two before the relevant WG session) and (2) the IETF would be liable for all presentations made at the conference, I don't see how we can realistically accept this restriction. (I suppose that other SDOs and conference organizers have tried to work around this restriction in various ways, but it seems irresponsible to do so by ignoring the restriction altogether and letting presenters say anything they want, given the organizational liability that is stipulated in the restriction. The IETF could claim that what presenters say at WG sessions, plenaries, and the like is outside the control of the IETF, but I think that is skating on rather thin ice.) Peter - -- Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkq5HPIACgkQNL8k5A2w/vzm4QCglTVmMZCdaYMaFNvI4opqaF7g XE0AoL8LE6/D/0gvVabYiu1N32rvZ1nJ =3Fq4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
