I completely agree with John here. Microsoft is not preventing you from using Imail, web messaging, AV, Declude, Sniffer, etc, etc, etc. You are completely free to choose your applications of choice, but you must also pay for the "appropriate" (as deemed from Microsoft) version, licenses, etc. This may mean that you pay more to do it!! Get over it. We all have chosen an email package that runs on Windows. That means that we like Windows. Don't bash Microsoft for charging more money for a product that we would prefer to use. This IS a capatilistic society folks.
If you want a cheaper, less restricting solution, go get Linux and stop your whining! Todd Holt Xidix Technologies, Inc Las Vegas, NV USA www.xidix.com 702.319.4349 > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:IMail_Forum- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Tolmachoff (Lists) > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 7:59 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [IMail Forum] Windows Server 2003 Web edition debate. > > You got to love arguments like this. > > A vendor provides a product for a purpose. You are expecting and raising a > flag and trumpeting saying I have a right to do this and this and this > with > it. > > We would all be much better off if people would quit trying to get away > with > things and get rid of this "IT IS MY RIGHT" attitude. > > I mean really, how ****** can you be? How do you perceive that Microsoft > is > trying to control the Internet by making a reduced price version of its > newest server OS and in doing so CORRECTLY limiting what the reduced price > version can and can not do? > > Pay less, get less. Pay more, get more. > > John Tolmachoff > Engineer/Consultant/Owner > eServices For You > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:IMail_Forum- > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bruce Barnes > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 3:13 AM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: RE: [IMail Forum] Windows Server 2003 Web edition debate. > > > > The DEFENSE to using Imail on any machine you like . . . > > > > I can't wait for the Justice Department and the State's Attorneys of > those > > States who went up against Microsoft, to interpret this situation. > > > > It would seem like this would be a RESTRAINT OF TRADE to force someone > to > > purchase a different version of a SERVER software when they are > installing > > another product that provides a SEPERATE function of a software, ie: > > "Imail, > > provides a proprietary function that is inherent to the software that is > > installed and is not dependent on the server operating system software." > > > > The argument to use in defense of that is that the Imail web messaging > > product is not a web server, but an extension of the one of the core > Imail > > function of mail boxes. > > > > To quote John Tolmachoff, from another post: > > > > "There is no way to "port" the MS IIS POP3 service and mail boxes to a > web > > page", and this makes the Imail product a totally separate functioning > > product. > > > > Therefore, the defense strategy becomes: > > > > IIS and SMTP, POP III are provided by the Microsoft Product. Imail > > provides > > an ADDITIONAL and distinctly SEPERATE SMTP and a WEB INTERFACE for the > > sole > > purpose of allowing the sending, receiving and reading of e-mail, and is > > therefore outside the control of Microsoft, and cannot be prohibited > from > > being installed on the same machine because such a prohibition is the > > equivalent of a restraint of being placed on the internet, which is made > > up > > of the interconnection of hundreds of thousands of equipment and data > > connections that are owned by the individuals, organizations, companies, > > governments and agencies that control and maintain their individually > > owned, > > leased or otherwise acquired equipment. > > > > Because the servers that compromise the Internet and provide SMTP, POP > III > > and WEB services are now and have been since the first day of web > hosting > > and e-mail delivery, running operating systems other than those provided > > by > > Microsoft, and because Imail provides an alternative to SMTP and WEB > > INTERFACING for the sole purpose of delivering e-mail, the ability to > > install Imail onto the same machine as Microsoft products is not > dependant > > on a decision by Microsoft or any of their attorneys, but by the > > individual > > end-user of the Imail product and the fact that it may or many not > operate > > in harmony with any other product installed on the same machine. > > > > Furthermore, since the Internet is not owned by either Microsoft, nor > any > > Country, nor any Government, nor any individual nor by anyone else who > > has > > any authority to require anyone connecting to the Internet run any > > particular software and/or hardware on any machine that is physically or > > electrically connected to the internet, Microsoft cannot either demand > > that > > any particular product is used on any such machine, nor can they > prohibit > > any product from being run on any such machine that is connected to, or > a > > part of, the Internet. > > > > IE: Microsoft may be able to tell us how many users can be connected to > a > > server product. They may be able to tell us what we have to pay for the > > purchase and use of their products, but I think both the Justice > > Department > > and the lower courts would be hard pressed to hold up their argument of > > exclusivity that would mandate that their server software must run on a > > separate machine from another product, ie: Imail, that runs without > > causing > > any interference to their product. > > > > Microsoft can say anything they want to in an EULA, but it is up to the > > Courts to interpret the enforceability of that EULA and, in light of > > recent > > court decisions, in this case, Microsoft may have gone too far. > > > > This will end up in Court and I am certain the Justice Department will, > > once > > again, rule in the favor of the People. > > > > Bruce Barnes > > ChicagoNetTech Inc > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of John Tolmachoff > > (Lists) > > Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 19:37 > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: [IMail Forum] Windows Server 2003 Web edition debate. > > > > > > Fuel for the Windows Server 2003 Web edition debate. > > > > After several hours of phone calls, dozens of e-mails and a number of > > faxes > > over the last 2 weeks, here is the result of my conversations with a MS > > Gold > > Certified partner and a senior MS licensing manager who contacted and > > obtained a cursory review by a MS lawyer who stated that a company using > > Web > > edition as outlined below "would be in the last group looked at of those > > groups with other applications installed on Windows Server 2003 Web > > Edition > > for violations and which any final determination of legality would > almost > > certainly have to be determined in a court of law": > > > > 1. No application can be installed on Web edition that will add > > features/functions beyond what MS has included. > > 2. AV software to protect the server and information flowing to it and > out > > of it is allowed, as that is considered a part of securing the server. > > 3. Applications which enhance, but not extend, features included by MS > are > > allowed. > > > > In relation to Imail and related add-ons and features, this is what was > > concluded: > > > > 1. Imail can be installed. > > 2. Only connections allowed to Imail is SMTP and POP3. Those functions > are > > included by MS, and by installing Imail and using the SMTP and POP3 > > services > > of Imail, you are providing an enhanced version of what MS supplied. > > IMAP4, > > Web Messaging, Web Calendaring, Finger and WhoIS services can not be > used, > > as there is no supplied equivalent MS service on the server. > > 3. Only database that can be used is the Imail database. An external > ODBC > > database can not be used, as MS IIS POP3 users are local only. Yes, you > > can > > use an external ODBC data source Web Edition, but not for the SMTP or > POP3 > > services, as there is no matching way that is possible with the MS SMTP > or > > POP3 functions. Also, using an external ODBC data source would extend > the > > POP3 feature, not just enhance. > > 4. Imail AV can be installed and used as that is part of securing the > > server > > and information flowing into and out of it. > > 5. Imail Anti-Spam can be used. In the IIS SMTP service, there is what > is > > called Event Sinks. These are VBS scripts that can scan and take action > on > > messages flowing through the SMTP service. > > 6. Declude Hi-Jack can be installed, as that is tracking IP addresses > and > > that is possible in the MS SMTP service through Event Sinks and the IIS > > SMTPSVCx logs. > > 7. Declude Virus can be installed for the same reason in #5 above. > > 8. Declude JunkMail can be installed for the same reason in #6 above. > > > > MY CONCLUSION: > > > > If you are only using Imail for gateway service (Store and Forward) or > > only > > allowing users to connect via POP3 AND only using the Imail database > > (registry) then Imail is allowed and usable. > > > > BTW, all 4 persons I talked to or were involved in this discussion made > it > > very clear their names were never to be mentioned. That was a solid > > statement that came directly from the lawyer. Figures. > > > > John Tolmachoff > > Engineer/Consultant/Owner > > eServices For You > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/mailing-lists.html > > List Archive: http://www.mail- > archive.com/imail_forum%40list.ipswitch.com/ > > Knowledge Base/FAQ: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/IMail/ > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/mailing-lists.html > > List Archive: http://www.mail- > archive.com/imail_forum%40list.ipswitch.com/ > > Knowledge Base/FAQ: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/IMail/ > > > To Unsubscribe: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/mailing-lists.html > List Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/imail_forum%40list.ipswitch.com/ > Knowledge Base/FAQ: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/IMail/ > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus > (http://www.declude.com)] --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] To Unsubscribe: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/mailing-lists.html List Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/imail_forum%40list.ipswitch.com/ Knowledge Base/FAQ: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/IMail/
