Let's separate the method from the goal. Saying that just because someone thinks a certain method is wrong means that they don't want the same goal is twisting the logic. We all want to stop the spammers...but we have to realize that the way that we do it is important. Two wrongs do not make a right.
Darin. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted Galerneau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 5:48 AM Subject: RE: [IMail Forum] Lycos screensaver tackles spam websites Len Said: ************* So, Ted, having "thought harder", you don't want Lycos or anybody else to counter-attack with DDoS against spamvertiser sites? You "thoughtful" position is that the status quo where spamvertizers can hire untouchable criminals and their wide-open ,compromised networks of machines to bomb our MXs with increasing intensity is ok while spamvertizers make millions with websites in plain view at our expense? Len ************* Not at all Len, I think something needs to be done about these terrorist spamming jerks and those that profit from them doing it, that's for sure! However I think the potential of doing collateral damage to innocents may be much higher doing it the Lycos way unless we know for a fact that they are carefully screening who is being attacked. If in fact they only target those who condone spam, and advertising via spam by not taking down offending sites after proper warning and a chance to do so, heck yes, DDoS them until their servers smoke and their copper glows red :) However the way this concept was first presented here on the forum and deemed as cool without any mention or regard to legit companies not knowing their clients are hiring other non-legit companies to spam and being attacked for it, is not what I would call logical thinking. We were once a victim of something like this concept ourselves, but in different way. One of our clients who knows we are totally anti-spam hired a company to spam for them. Without any notice, investigation or further thought our ISP shut us down then and there. I had to produce log files and prove to them that the spam didn't come from our servers when the idiots could have looked at the headers of their evidence and seen for themselves that it wasn't coming from us. Instead they just killed our whole operation without any warning or anything. We got back online after proving we didn't do it, and shutting down our offending client's site. But had they asked I would have done that in a heartbeat anyway and our other clients would have not suffered because of one jerk that made a bad choice. We also lost a few clients of the ISP's stupid methodology and logic. We changed ISP companies, and life goes on, but it was not something I will ever forget. Bottom line is, if the ISP and or host that is hosting the site is also allowing them to spam, DDoS them until they submit! IF they find another host repeat the above action until they can't find a host. If the web hosting company hosting the offending site is not allowing spam they should be given the chance to take the offender offline before any further retaliation is launched against their legit server. This is assuming the attack didn't come from the web host's email servers or IP addresses. I fully agree that it's our responsibility to police our own services. I also think that a much better angle would be working on ways of shutting down web hosting companies and the ISP companies that provides their bandwidth if they are not monitoring what they can control and helping to prevent it. If anyone started spamming from our server we would know it soon and they would be shut down really just as fast. If any of our machines had worms and start generating too much outbound traffic, they would be isolated and fixed, just as fast. If all ISP and Hosting companies would adopt this same attitude it would put a stop to the spammers. But what the world has instead is a bunch of greedy ISP companies and web hosts that are willing to do anything for a buck. Spammers, dope dealers, thieves, etc, they can all fit in one category as I see it and yes I would love to stop them, using anything available. But how I contribute to stopping it and if I will compromise my own principals is the only things I care about! It's comparable to killing someone that is using deadly force against you, which is perfectly ethical, legal, logical and morally ok here in the US. Killing them and an innocent child that happened to be standing on the other side of them and in the path of the bullet that passed thru the bad guy isn't legal, moral, ethical or anything else but just plain wrong and stupid! As logical and responsible human beings, we all need to pay attention to how we solve problems and be careful and conscientious of who else we may hurt in the process. This is not mob rules here and the good guys only need a well thought out logical plan of attack! Just assuming Lycos is making wise calls on who gets attacked and jumping on the bandwagon without a second thought is not logical or ethical IMHO, sorry! Ted To Unsubscribe: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/mailing-lists.html List Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/imail_forum%40list.ipswitch.com/ Knowledge Base/FAQ: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/IMail/ To Unsubscribe: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/mailing-lists.html List Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/imail_forum%40list.ipswitch.com/ Knowledge Base/FAQ: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/IMail/
