Hi Ilya, Am 28.03.2018 um 22:17 schrieb Ilya Zverev: > Thanks for you comments on the last iteration. I have also seen local > discussions in french and german communities, with strong voices towards > rejecting the import in their countries. So I ask you to consider the > next iteration.
The German community discussed your import on the Talk-de mailing list and the German forum. https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-de/2018-March/114737.html https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=61809 German POI data is not complete and will never be complete. We welcome help to improve the POI data in Germany. However, the quality of data to be imported has to be much better than dataset being provided. That's why almost all users who participated in discussions on the Talk-de mailing list and the German OSM Forum oppose this import. Providing a list or a diff between the Navads dataset and OSM is welcomed and will help us to improve our work without increasing the burden for the manager of the import to invest more work into fixing all the errors of the data and the software. The details reported by various users: Wrong entries ============= The import wants to add test data to OSM: http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/navads_fuel/NVDS265_376650 addr:postcode=10178 [that's in Berlin] amenity=fuel brand=Blablabla phone=+49 6058 96709 [dialling code for the areas around Frankfurt/Main and Mannheim] ref:navads=NVDS265_376650 reported by kartonage at https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=691848#p691848 The import wants to add gas stations at locations where only the offices of companies are located (Sponholzstraße 31, 12159 Berlin). This seems to be a residential building. http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/navads_fuel/NVDS265_101811 addr:postcod=12159 amenity=fuel brand=H.-G. Meinecke opening_hours=Mo-Fr 08:00-17:00 phone=+49 30 8598630 ref:navads=NVDS265_101811 reported by kartonage at https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=691848#p691848 The import wants to add fuel storage tank facilities as gas stations. http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/navads_fuel/NVDS265_520220 (Adolf ROTH GmbH & Co. KG in Aschaffenburg Harbour) reported by Maskulinum at https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=691875#p691875 The import wants to add a restaurant as a gas station. User Maskulinum assumes that there might be a gas station about 100 metres away. http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/navads_fuel/NVDS265_520496 (ROTH Energie at Industriestraße 4, Stockstadt am Main) https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=691875#p691875 User !i! writes that the import wants to add three new gas stations in Rostock although there is not any gas station at that location (and has never been there). https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=692539#p692539 Wrong location for new gas stations =================================== If the import adds a new gas station, it usually sets the node to the location of the shop. If the gas station belongs to a large supermarket (e.g. Intermarché in France http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/navads_fuel/NVDS346_54a1ba8f9826bf65d6a32489), the node will be set into the middle of the supermarket! reported by DD1GJ at https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=691912#p691912 Postal codes ============ Don't add addr:postcode=* if that is the only address tag to be added. [Postal codes are mapped as boundary relations in Germany and addr:postcode=* is *sometimes* used in addition.] reported by Basstoelpel at https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=691681#p691681 and by Prince Kassad at https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=691683#p691683 Opening hours ============= The import deletes PH values from opening_hours=*. reported by kreuzschnabel at https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=691688#p691688 and by Yokr at https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=691813#p691813 The opening hours to be imported seem to be wrong in more than one case. User Prince Kassad writes that he mapped the opening hours of the following station recently and he does not believe that the opening hours have changed again: https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1784969657 https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=691734#p691734 Opening hours of the import and the Aral website are different: http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/navads_fuel/NVDS114_20002600DE1 reported by aixbrick at https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=691757#p691757 The import sets opening_hours=24/7 for many Avia stations but the Avia website claims they are not open 24/7. reported by Harald Hartmann at https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=691832#p691832 Other users confirm that the data to be imported does not match the reality. reported by seichter at https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=691860#p691860 (no examples given) Other examples: http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/navads_fuel/NVDS126_2181 (way 124656455) reported by Maskulinum at https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=691875#p691875 http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/navads_fuel/NVDS126_1516 (way 228229916) reported by Klumbumbus at https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=691878#p691878 http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/navads_fuel/NVDS126_2205 (node 171592401) reported by DD1GJ at https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=692919#p692919 http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/navads_fuel/NVDS126_3237 (way 209654684) website: Mo-Fr 07:00-18:00; Sa 08:00-14:00; Su 00:00-24:00 asked by phone: shop Mo-Fr 07:00-18:00; Sa 08:00-14:00 (vending machine 24/7) import: Mo-We,Fr-Su 00:00-24:00; Th 07:00-18:00 reported by DD1GJ at https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=692919#p692919 streckenkundler reports that the opening hours of at least one Shell station are wrong. The import wants to replace "Mo-Fr 05:00-23:00; Sa 06:00-22:00; Su 07:00-22:00" at the Shell station in Berliner Chaussee, Lübben (Spreewald) by 24/7. http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/navads_fuel/NVDS353_10026605 https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=691867#p691867 Wrong matches ============= Several users reported many wrong matches. Examples: http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/navads_fuel/NVDS158_2109 http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/navads_fuel/NVDS114_18126000DE1 reported by dooley at https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=691691#p691691 Non-public gas stations ======================= The import adds many Avia gas stations which are not (or don't seem to be) open to the public. reported by Protoxenus at https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=691727#p691727 http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/navads_fuel/NVDS126_3043 http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/navads_fuel/NVDS126_3243 http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/navads_fuel/NVDS126_3042 reported by Falk Zscheile at https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-de/2018-March/114745.html If a gas station is added to OSM, you should double-check if it exists already. Just searching for amenity=fuel is not sufficient. Example: http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/navads_fuel/NVDS353_10025258 https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/285418589 reported by glglgl at https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=691731#p691731 Proprietary reference numbers ============================= Many users oppose the addition of rev:navads=*. It is a proprietary reference number which is neither used by the operators/brands of the gas stations nor know to the public. In addition, it is impossible to check if it is correct. critized by rurseekatze at https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=691732#p691732 critized by glglgl at https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=691741#p691741 critized by hsimpson at https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=692075#p692075 and https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=692083#p692083 critized by seichter at https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=691746#p691746 streckenkundler: only ok if the Navads database is public accessible (https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=691867#p691867) MKnight: no optimal idea but useful to find the edits of the import (https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=692079#p692079) Data is too old to be imported ============================== The data to be imported is too old. The import would modify brand=* tags but people point out many cases where gas stations changed their brand in the past (even many years ago) but the import would overwrite that change with the old brand name. Total website claims that it is their station: http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/navads_fuel/NVDS114_13146600DE1 Aral website does not know this station: http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/navads_fuel/NVDS114_28626700DE1 reported by highflyer74 at https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=691757#p691757 This Aral station became a Shell station a few months ago: http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/navads_fuel/NVDS114_20036900DE1 reported by aixbrick at https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=691757#p691757 This was a Total station and became an Esso station five years ago but the import wants to set brand=Aral. https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/33677178 In addition, the postal code being imported is wrong. reported by DD1GJ at https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=691912#p691912 Aral station became Shell, import wants to revert that: http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/navads_fuel/NVDS114_20036900DE1 (way 180629116) reported by hsimpson at https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=692074#p692074 Wrong phone numbers =========================== The phone numbers to be added are sometimes the country-wide service phone numbers, not the phone numbers of the gas station itself. reported by Skinfaxi at https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=692354#p692354 [I am not sure if that refers to gas stations in Sweden] Quality of the coordinates ========================== The coordinates in the dataset provided by Navads are not suitable for an automated import. Example: http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/navads_fuel/NVDS402_014 reported by highflyer74 at https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=691744#p691744 http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/navads_fuel/e9dcf0e6_d404_405c_9061_9091e742b3a6 reported by Rainer at https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-de/2018-March/114738.html There is no gas station (it is a point on a road): http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/navads_fuel/NVDS114_27007300DE1 reported by Falk Zscheile at https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-de/2018-March/114745.html Unnecessary changes of spelling =============================== You should not modify the brand=* tag if a case insensitive string comparison returns true. brand=AVIA → brand=Avia http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/navads_fuel/NVDS126_1179 reported by Harald Hartmann at https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=691827#p691827 Formatting of phone numbers =========================== The formatting of phone numbers is not perfect. A user complained about a gas station in Eastern Germany: 036797 22097 (avia) vs. +49 3679 722097 (navads) The 7 belongs to the dialling code. (reported by Harald Hartmann at https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=691835#p691835) Miscellaneous ============= Protoxenus criticizes that the date of the Navads dataset is unknown. (https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=692184#p692184) ankro70 thinks that the import is of low value. Some really important properties of gas stations (types of fuel being sold, payment methods) are not modified. He has the impression that the main intention is to import the gas stations into OSM. Adding postal codes and phone numbers are just accessories to make the import not look so boring and loveless. (https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=692222#p692222) Other countries mentioned in the discussions ============================================ Simon Poole points out that many of the reported errors also exist in Switzerland. In addition, many gas stations in Switzerland have two different opening hours — one for the shop and 24/7 if you pay by debit card or credit card at a vending machine. https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=691866#p691866 User mapa mundi writes that the opening hours of 3 of 10 checked gas stations in Austria are wrong. https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=692461#p692461 Best regards Michael -- Per E-Mail kommuniziere ich bevorzugt GPG-verschlüsselt. (Mailinglisten ausgenommen) I prefer GPG encryption of emails. (does not apply on mailing lists)
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