2007/7/11, Milan Jurik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
Hi Alberto,
V út, 10. 07. 2007 v 20:55, Alberto Ruiz píše:
>
> So they are people opened to choose, most Linux people have tried
> FreeBSD, BeOS, etc... they like to try things. We don't want to lock
> them, the choice is up to them, we just attract them and show them,
> that OpenSolaris have features that are not comparable to any other in
> the OS space, and we want to be sure, that the switch to take
> advantage of this is affordable (in terms of learning curve)
>
But you want to show them the userspace similar to their own, they will
not try to find the other ways of thinking.
The ones that are really open and want to try "other ways of thinking" are
already using OpenSolaris now. Other people might be open to learn this new
ways, but they need a softer learning curve, this is an effort to make that
curve less vertical at the begining.
Anyway, the major issue here is not top, is not sudo, and is not tar. The
major issue is package management, for an ubuntu/debian/gentoo user, using
Solaris is just like going back to the late 90's in terms of software
installation, and before to learn the wonders of Zones, DTrace, RBAC, SMF
and ZFS, people want to be able to install their beloved Gvim or Inkscape
with no pain. This doesn't mean to break the Solaris way of thinking, this
means making people's life easier.
I'm not against fixing bloody userland, I'm against just
> clonning GNU
> world and tools duplications, hidding benefits and overtaking
> mistakes.
>
> During the whole discussion, we have came up with really interesting
> ways to not just clone GNU. However, when we don't have something that
> GNU has, we should take it. I don't see how you have came up to the
> conclusion that we are going to just clone the GNU userland, clonning
> and making an effort to provide the most common commands and
> interfaces that people from Linux expect to find are different things,
> and I haven't seen anyone in this list towards the direction you are
> talking.
>
I know that you want to give them both ways. And I don't agree that it
it the correct solution. You will just create big mess, duplications in
tools. Something like catdogs.
I can't see what's the big problem duplicating tools. However, when two
tools doesn't do exactly the same thing, I can't see what's the problem of
having both available.
I read it and I answered it, just to Brian, as I received his e-mail
personally first. If you want, I can resend it to all. No, there is no
reason in his e-mail to increase quantity of tools, with similar
algorithms, just with different interfaces.
He talked about sudo features that are not present on RBAC, anyway, free
software is all about choice, there's no point on forcing people to use one
and only tool if we can provide them others with no pain. If you don't like
those tools, don't use them, is as easy as that. There's no big mess as you
say, debian has maybe 7 or 8 different web servers in their repository
(probably more), and that's not a mess, and it doesn't have long terms
repercusions, is all about choice.
There is a OpenSolaris distribution with no sudo and no gnu tools already,
is called Solaris Express, if you like how it is, use it.
If you don't like it, you can always derivate the distribution and remove
those bits, but the whole Indiana thing started because we want to attract
people and developers from other platforms, which means, mostly Linux users.
We are not trying the better Solaris for Solaris gurus, we are trying to
make something attractive from people out there, that needs some
compromises.
Best regards,
Milan
--
Un saludo,
Alberto Ruiz
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