John Plocher wrote:
Brandorr wrote:
I'm not sure that this is what is happening.
Ian and Sara said or strongly implied that this discussion/decision was
being made by the Sun OpenSolaris marketing and Branding people who were
among the core contributers of the Advocacy (nee Marketing CG), and that
this was a presentation from that group. I'm taking them at their word.
Internally at Sun, we'd like to give the community the opportunity to
use the trademark. Before opening up the discussion publicly though, I
needed to get buy-off that the offer was there. That took longer than I
would have hoped.
I'm also aware that Sun does not have to do this. It owns the trademark.
That Sara made a presentation about branding at OSDS07 is a step in the
right direction. Her proposal was a great beginning, but it isn't at all
ready for prime time - witness this discussion.
Fair enough, although I should have opened discussion earlier, there
wasn't really any of this discussion at the Summit. In fact, no
significant objections beyond versioning were raised. The Summit was an
opportunity to expedite these types of conversations and from our
perspective, we seemed to reach consensus amongst those there. That the
OGB members making the most noise about this now, even though local,
couldn't be bothered to attend the Summit to participate in the
conversation is another discussion.
I'm hopeful that Sara, Ian and the other Sun Decision-Makers will follow
up on this and choose to use the Advocacy Community to hold their
discussions, evolve their proposals, and ask for a vote (even if they
don't technically need to). This is all part of /BUILDING/ a community
around ourselves.
I will write up the proposal and post it to these lists. We can discuss
from there (both mine and John's). What would we be voting on exactly?
What to name Indiana? Use of the TM? Do we, as a CG, have the power or
authority to make such decisions? I think this is a broader OpenSolaris
Community issue that we need to resolve.
I have deep reservations, don't get me wrong. The facts seem to be
that there has been NO prior advocacy CG discussions about this topic,
that the *first* external discussion of this was a set of slides at
OSDS07, that Ian is leading with his mouth without first building
consensus here, that there appear to be over 100 Core Contributers
in the Advocacy CG, most of which are User Group leaders and not
branding/marketing experts, that OGB members will do more destructive
complaining and less constructive leading....
There has been prior discussion. It was a while ago. My interpretation
of those discussions was that the name was controversial, and that one
of the controversies was that the TM was owned by Sun. While personally
I think that is not only a good thing, but a necessity, I agree that Sun
should not use its ownership of the TM as a way to mis-use it. Which is
why I took the discussion off-line and started the internal dialog. I'll
agree that I should have followed up earlier, and definitely before the
Summit.
I would also like to point out that it was my mouth leading and not
Ian's. Credit where credit is due. This one is mine to own.
So, instead of bitching and moaning, I've joined the Advocacy community
and submitted a revised proposal. Wish me luck. Follow me there and
contribute.
Thanks John.
-John
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject:
Re: [ogb-discuss] Indiana as the OpenSolaris xxxx distro (was Re:
[smf-discuss] Review for 6608098)
From:
Brandorr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:
Fri, 19 Oct 2007 14:59:38 -0400
To:
John Plocher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
John Plocher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
CC:
Keith M Wesolowski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Governing Board
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
On 10/19/07, John Plocher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Keith M Wesolowski wrote:
Think about what you're saying. A CG (by definition likely to be
comprised of like-minded people) can make decisions for everyone and,
as long as they voted properly, no one else can ever appeal that
decision. In what universe does this reading of the Constitution make
any sense at all?
In the words that are written in the constitution that I quoted.
This is what you get when you adopt a constitution that favors state's
rights over centralized government. Like it or not, we are a confederacy,
not a federation or a dictatorship.
Definitions
Confederation: An association of sovereign states or
communities - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederation
Federation: A form of government in which powers and functions
are divided between a central government and a number
of political subdivisions ...
usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/geography/glossary.htm
What part of ...
6.1. Powers. The business and affairs of the OpenSolaris Community
shall be managed by or under the direction of the OpenSolaris Governing
Board (OGB), which may exercise all such powers granted by the Charter
for the operation and sustenance of the OpenSolaris Community efforts,
maintenance of the accepted procedures for making decisions within the
OpenSolaris Community, and enforcement of those procedures when deemed
necessary.
... says that the OGB has the power to override a CG decision? Is it
under Maintenance of Procedures? Enforcement? Arbitration?
Furthermore, the Charter specifically excludes the OGB from any
right to decide things relating to Sun's OpenSolaris trademark:
However, nothing in this charter shall be construed so as to confer
to the OGB: (a) any title or right under copyright, patent, trademark,
or other intellectual property law; ...
I'm not disagreeing that it would be bad for Sun to do stuff unilaterally
here, because it would be bad - very bad.
But it would be worse for the OS.o community to self-destruct over an
internal power war between the OGB and a CG. Especially when the
constitution is written in such a state's rights manner.
John,
I'm not sure that this is what is happening. You have framed this as a
a CG decision a number of times in this thread. Where did you get that
idea? There isn't any "branding" discussion happening on
advocacy-discuss.
Whether it is or it isn't the right place for it, it's just not
happening, contrary to what you are saying.
As far as I can tell, a private Sun internal discussion is happening
about how best to approach the branding issue as regards to
OpenSolaris.
The first time these thoughts were "publicly" presented to the
OpenSolaris community, was at the Summit, and only are we starting to
discuss the implications.
Ian Murdock, who is "Sun's chief operating system platform strategist"
wants to see OpenSolaris the distro. (Ian has been telling the press
that this is going to happen. He did not consult the community, and
seek a consensus on this, before making this commitment. Thus I can
only assume that Sun's official position is that there will be a
distro called OpenSolaris, and that it will be developed under the
Indiana project. (Although some of the development is NOW being done
in the open, a number of project goals and design decisions were set
to meet Sun's undisclosed business goals).
Because Ian said that Sun will make a disto called OpenSolaris, Sun
now needs a distro called OpenSolaris. Sun doesn't need to do anything
with the community, OGB, CG or otherwise. Involving the community at
this point, when it is clear that Sun has already made a decision to
use their OpenSolaris trademark in a certain way, seems a bit of a
waste of time.
I am guessing when you are saying that it is a CG decision and not an
OGB or community decision, you mean it is a Sun
legal/marketing/executive decision, not an OGB or community.
Just so long as we all understand this, I think that can safely put
this issue to rest.
-Brian
P.S. - I know the difference between ****Sun**** and an individual
that works for Sun. As "Sun's chief operating system platform
strategist", I would say that Ian is qualified to act as an official
Sun representative, and anything that he says, unless caveatted, is
the "official" Sun policy/position.
-John
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