One more time I copy my exact words which raised an unnecessary issue : "I think number of seeds may help - 10 to 23 in *foemina* and 20 to 35 in *arvensis* (*caerulea* L.)."
Do I need to explain the meaning of "may help"? Thank you Regards surajit On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 9:56 AM, Ushadi Micromini <[email protected]> wrote: > I know Gurcharanji > > i was underscoring the futility of relying on old literature > > and i thought it was funny: the seed count, that's all. > > may be difference in numbers of seeds translates into a difference in size > of the fruits? > or the seeds? > > of course botanical diagnosis is an art ... like medical diagnosis > > > usha di > > > On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 9:30 AM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Ushadi >> In systematics we say, if some characters overlap, we do not rely on >> single character, but a combination of characters. >> >> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >> Retired Associate Professor >> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >> http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ >> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >> >> On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 7:57 AM, Ashwini Bhatia <[email protected] >> > wrote: >> >>> Thank you Dr Singh. It was from your post and the well-explained >>> differences between *A. arvensis* and *A. foemina* that I had concluded >>> my sample to be *A. arvensis subsp. caerulea*. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Ashwini >>> >>> >>> On 01-May-2015, at 7:14 am, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Ashwini ji >>> I have discussed this in detail in my earlier post. Yours is clearly A. >>> arvensis subsp. caerulea. >>> >>> >>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/indiantreepix/Ananagalis$20arvensis$20Gurcharan/indiantreepix/4EXykhCkjE8/SrpmLHwTUaoJ >>> >>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>> Retired Associate Professor >>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>> http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ >>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>> >>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 11:48 PM, surajit koley < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> This is a tough question, to differentiate the two taxa (or is it >>>> one?), in spite of eFI having a clear demarcation. >>>> >>>> Flower character, length of pedicels etc are often overlapping. While >>>> sites like >>>> http://keyserver.lucidcentral.org/weeds/data/03030800-0b07-490a-8d04-0605030c0f01/media/Html/Anagallis_arvensis.htm >>>> or http://flowers2.la.coocan.jp/Myrsinaceae/Anagallis%20arvensis.htm or >>>> http://hirc.botanic.hr/fcd/DetaljiFrame.aspx?IdVrste=941 think all is >>>> same some other sites like the following links think otherwise - >>>> >>>> 1. http://www.floravascular.com/index.php?spp=Anagallis%20foemina >>>> 2. http://www.floravascular.com/index.php?spp=Anagallis%20arvensis >>>> >>>> I think number of seeds may help - 10 to 23 in *foemina* and 20 to 35 >>>> in *arvensis* (*caerulea* L.). >>>> >>>> Here is KEW herb of *foemina* - >>>> http://apps.kew.org/herbcat/getImage.do?imageBarcode=K000750810. >>>> >>>> Since pedicels in the attached pics are longer than the subtending >>>> leaves, and I prefer to follow FoC it is likely to be *A. arvensis* L. >>>> >>>> Thank you >>>> Regards >>>> surajit >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 4:47 PM, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I think you should be right. >>>>> >>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>>> From: Ashwini Bhatia <[email protected]> >>>>> Date: 24 April 2015 at 17:51 >>>>> Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:221413] Re: Blue Pimpernel ABAPR01/17 >>>>> To: "J.M. Garg" <[email protected]> >>>>> Cc: efloraofindia <[email protected]> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thank you very much Dr Garg. I am attaching here more photos to go >>>>> with the key. Please advise if my understanding is correct; >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The first sample, petals are longer than sepals and petal edges are >>>>> minutely hairy like a torn paper. >>>>> <_MG_0262_13April15.jpg> >>>>> >>>>> The second sample from a different location shows pedicel longer than >>>>> leaves. >>>>> >>>>> <_MG_0272_18April15.jpg> >>>>> >>>>> Petals are overlapping. >>>>> <_MG_0272c_18April15.jpg> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Can we conclude from this that the flower is *A. arvensis var. >>>>> caerulea*? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks and regards, >>>>> Ashwini >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 24-Apr-2015, at 5:24 pm, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Keys are available at Anagallis >>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/po/primulaceae/anagallis> >>>>> >>>>> On 24 April 2015 at 17:15, Ashwini Bhatia <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Thank you Dr Garg. I am not sure if it is *Anagallis arvensis ssp. >>>>>> foemina *or *Lysimachia formina. *The following is from my original >>>>>> message on this thread; >>>>>> >>>>>> "FOI website lists it (or a similar one) as *Anagallis arvensis ssp. >>>>>> foemina*. Alok Mahendroo ji's excellent nature blog says *Anagallis >>>>>> arvensis var. coerulea*. Wikipedia cautions not to confuse the blue >>>>>> variation of *A. arvensis* with *A. foemina* (or *Lysimachia formina*) >>>>>> as they are categorised as different species after DNA studies. >>>>>> >>>>>> I do not have the key to differentiate the two. Please advise.” >>>>>> >>>>>> Warm regards, >>>>>> Ashwini >>>>>> >>>>>> On 24-Apr-2015, at 2:14 pm, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Pl. see Anagallis >>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/po/primulaceae/anagallis> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 18 April 2015 at 21:25, Ashwini Bhatia <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I found a few more plants at Gaggal Airport and am sharing them here >>>>>>> to confirm the ID if possible. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Gaggal Airport >>>>>>> 1300m approx >>>>>>> 18 April 2015 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>>> Ashwini >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <_MG_0265_18April15.jpg><_MG_0269_18April15.jpg> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 15-Apr-2015, at 9:05 am, Ashwini Bhatia < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I saw these tiny blue flowers in the lower town where I had gone to >>>>>>> partake in a local feast. I tried to photograph it on my phone but was >>>>>>> unable to do so properly on account of the flower being too small for a >>>>>>> clear picture. I collected a sample and hoped that it didn't wilt in the >>>>>>> time it took me to reach home. It survived the journey and I made some >>>>>>> photographs propping it up with a discarded cardboard box (hence the >>>>>>> brown >>>>>>> in the pictures). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I was tickled on finding that it was called the Blue Pimpernel and >>>>>>> was useful as a weather indicator due to its propensity to close before >>>>>>> bad >>>>>>> weather. I have not yet asked the local shepherds if they use this >>>>>>> 'shepherd's weather-glass', but will do so soon. FOI website lists it >>>>>>> (or a >>>>>>> similar one) as *Anagallis arvensis ssp. foemina*. Alok Mahendroo >>>>>>> ji's excellent nature blog says *Anagallis arvensis var. coerulea*. >>>>>>> Wikipedia cautions not to confuse the blue variation of *A. >>>>>>> arvensis* with *A. foemina* (or *Lysimachia formina*) as they are >>>>>>> categorised as different species after DNA studies. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I do not have the key to differentiate the two. Please advise. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Blue Pimpernel >>>>>>> Dharamshala, HP >>>>>>> 1500m approx. >>>>>>> 13 April 2015 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>>> Ashwini >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <_MG_0235_13April15.jpg> >>>>>>> <_MG_0234_13April15.jpg> >>>>>>> <_MG_0223_13April15.jpg> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> With regards, >>>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>>> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >>>>>> The whole world uses my Image Resource >>>>>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a >>>>>> thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants >>>>>> etc. >>>>>> (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as >>>>>> per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >>>>>> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian >>>>>> Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in >>>>>> the world- more than 2400 members & 2,00,000 messages on 9.9.14) or >>>>>> Efloraofindia >>>>>> website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a >>>>>> species database of more than 10,000 species & 2,00,000 images). Winner >>>>>> of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia> >>>>>> . >>>>>> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds >>>>>> of India'. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> With regards, >>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >>>>> The whole world uses my Image Resource >>>>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a >>>>> thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants >>>>> etc. >>>>> (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as >>>>> per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >>>>> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian >>>>> Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in >>>>> the world- more than 2400 members & 2,00,000 messages on 9.9.14) or >>>>> Efloraofindia >>>>> website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a >>>>> species database of more than 10,000 species & 2,00,000 images). Winner >>>>> of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia> >>>>> . >>>>> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of >>>>> India'. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> With regards, >>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >>>>> The whole world uses my Image Resource >>>>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a >>>>> thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants >>>>> etc. >>>>> (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as >>>>> per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >>>>> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian >>>>> Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in >>>>> the world- more than 2400 members & 2,00,000 messages on 9.9.14) or >>>>> Efloraofindia >>>>> website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a >>>>> species database of more than 10,000 species & 2,00,000 images). Winner >>>>> of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia> >>>>> . >>>>> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of >>>>> India'. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "efloraofindia" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > > -- > Usha di > =========== > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send an email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
