Thanks, Chadwell ji On 24 Nov 2016 11:57 pm, "C CHADWELL" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I am supportive of the sound comments of Dr Rawat. > > One cannot rely upon records from herbaria alone. Active field botanists > who can reliably identify the plants they encounter during > surveys are essential. The relative presence or not of specimens of > particular species collected since Indian Independence cf. before > may just be a reflection of how often and whom, botanises in the higher > mountains..... > > Botanists exhibit varying levels of field skills and ability to cope with > the rigours of exploring for plants in the mountains and this will impact > on what is found. Not everyone is keen to leave the office or herbarium, > especially if those at a higher level do not encourage field botany or > recognise its importance. > > *As a young botanist and team-leader of a survey of riverside vegetation > in Wales 34 years ago (where we surveyed 500km stretches of river-bank) > comparisons for my team of surveyors were made on certain stretches i.e. we > all surveyed the same stretch. None of us spotted every species but, > thankfully, I found the most. Different field workers are more observant > than others. The project compared different stretches of river, assessing > the richness on the basis of total number of plant species and their > rarity. Comparisons I instigated showed that much depended on whom did the > surveying, which those who set up these surveys had not appreciated. The > results were published in a paper in the Journal of Biological > Conservation.* > > It is challenging to botanise methodically and search carefully, > especially in difficult terrain, not least at higher altitudes. Not > everyone can scramble about amongst rocks and boulders or steep > slopes/cliffs. > > I recollect the first time I reached the Baralacha La (pass) between > Lahoul and Rupshu at some 4800m. It was a bright sunny day in 1991. I was > using slide film in those days and KNEW the in-camera light metering would > be confused by the conditions such that if I just took pictures the usual > way the exposure would be wrong. I KNEW I needed to do what was called > "bracketing" the exposure but my head was light from the high elevation and > shortage of oxygen and could not make myself do it..... > > Similarly, I visited Ladakh just a few years ago and reached (again by > vehicle) Chang La (over 5000m) not too far from Leh. I was OK (albeit > slow) when exploring over the pass but during a later stop, struggled even > to move! > > If someone like myself who is robust, spends time acclimatizing and enjoys > being in the mountains, finds it hard-going (at times) then I am sure > others do as well. *Not everyone is comfortable in mountains or copes > with the altitude or can safely negotiate such terrain (in which case they > become a liability).* > > *It MUST be stressed that a true picture of a region's flora cannot be > found solely relying upon what grows within a few metres or at most a few > hundred metres, of a road or track (certain cosmopolitan weeds may occur > disproportionately in such places whilst some species will be missed > altogether). It is ESSENTIAL to both trek into the mountains* and > scramble amongst the rocks and boulders on steep slopes. > > The Czech plant ecologists who have studied the ecology of such plants as > Thylacospermum caespitsoum at the upper limits of flowering plants in > Ladakh are to be commended. They discovered new species and a new genus of > flowering plant. I have not been to such places in Ladakh > @ 5500-6000m! I do not know of too many Indian botanists who have. *It > is IMPOSSIBLE to accurately assess the rarity or abundance of species which > grow amongst rocks and boulders @ 4-5000m e,g. unless one surveys intensely > in such habitats. This has not been happening, let alone 5000m+ (although > species are few and far between at such extremes).* > > I have been lecturing about my travels in the Himalaya to clubs & > societies in the UK for more than 30 years. Audiences are often inspired > by the images I show. When speaking on Ladakh e.g., I stress that typical > reaction of Westerners to such altitudes and conditions are lethargy, > depression and a wish to go home at the earliest opportunity - not helped > by a raking cough caused by the dry air! And many a mountain 'road' is > not for the faint-hearted. > > I myself have suffered from serious gastro-intestinal difficulties (akin > to food poisoning) on numerous occasions and had to return back to the UK > prematurely on my first expedition. I wish I had known on my early > expeditions a quick solution (all such episodes were cleared up within 24 > hours in more recent years - the 'cure' being told me by a UK doctor > working in India). *Must have been mad to continue..... I am reminded of > the song "Mad Dogs and Englishmen go out in the Noon Day sun..."* > > Best Wishes, > > > Chris Chadwell > > > 81 Parlaunt Road > SLOUGH > SL3 8BE > UK > > www.shpa.org.uk > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* D.S Rawat <[email protected]> > *To:* J.M. Garg <[email protected]> > *Cc:* C CHADWELL <[email protected]>; efloraofindia < > [email protected]> > *Sent:* Tuesday, 8 November 2016, 4:40 > *Subject:* Re: [efloraofindia:256025] Re: Plumbaginaceae, Primulaceae & > Myrsinaceae Fortnight 1-14June2014: Primula minutissima from > Uttarakhand_DSR_1 > > The major reason for including species in Red Data Book of Indian Plants > (3 vols published by Botanical Survey of India in 1987,88,90 and edited by > Nayar & Sastry) and later into other such documents like 1997 IUCN Redlist > of Threatened Plants (Rao et al. 2003) was herbarium studies in Indian > herbaria. Species not collected since long or less collected were also > included in list of red taxa in addition to species facing exploitation for > various purposes. > As said by Chadwell Ji, I also believe that the status of these species > need to be reviewed in light of current IUCN criteria and extensive field > work in the probable localities all along their distribution range. > Do we have resources, dedicated field workers ready to explore extremely > difficult terrains, and earnest desire to do so are the issues related to > this aspect of declaring plants Endangered/ Rare / Extinct. > > DSRawat Pantnagar > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------------------------------------------------ > ----------------- > Dr D.S. Rawat > Department of Biological Sciences, G.B. Pant University of Agriculture & > Technology Pantnagar-263 145 Uttarakhand, INDIA > *eflorapantnagar* <https://sites.google.com/site/eflorapantnagar/home> > displaying wild flora of Pantnagar > > On Tue, Nov 8, 2016 at 9:27 AM, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: > > Thanks, Chadwell ji > > On 8 Nov 2016 8:37 am, "chrischadwell261@btinternet. com > <[email protected]>" <chrischadwell261@btinternet. com > <[email protected]>> wrote: > > I think this must be *P.minutissima*. Cannot think which other species > it can be. It is a nonsense (as with Saxifraga jacquemontiana) to suggest > this plant is Endangered. It is no such thing. I repeat my comment that I > am at a lost to know how species are included in the Red List of Threatened > Vascular Plants in India (the only reason it is in the IUCN Red List of > Threatened Plants is because they accepted what was submitted - they are in > no position to check, just as the species accepted onto Appendices for > CITES are accepted on no actual evidence as those from the Indian Himalaya > are *not* 'Rare & Endangered'. How can botanists who spend so little > time in the field possibly know what is rare let alone endangered. You do > not discover this from an office!. > > As Primula minutissima grows well in suitable habitat in Ladakh (I have > seen it in several places including irrigation channels), also in the > Kashmir Valley, Kulu Valley and know of it from Baspa Valley, Kinnuar, > where it is flourishing. 'Flowers of Himalaya' say stony slopes in areas > near to the Tibetan border @ 3600-5200m. I don't think the authors of these > 'Red Lists' have spent much time on high passes in the borderlands of Tibet > to know the status of populations of this plant, anymore than they know > about colonies of Saxifraga jacquemontiana - neither of which is under any > threat whatsoever. > > *But what about the species what are GENUINELY rare & endangered.... This > is a seriously wrong situation which needs addressing at the highest levels > nationally and internationally.... Claims of rarity MUST be based upon > reliable and accurate information. How many botanists in India have > regularly botanised and surveyed in the high mountains? And of these, how > many can recognise, whilst in those mountains, such species as > P.minutissima and Saxifraga jacquemontiana. I have to an extent and can > recognise them. So perhaps my reliable evidence is worth listening to.* > > > On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 at 8:13:00 AM UTC+1, D.S Rawat wrote: > > *Primula minutissima* Jacq. ex Duby (Primulaceae) is a tiny carpet > forming herb in alpine zones of Western Himalaya. It is listed in 1997 > IUCN Red List of Threatened Plants and in Red List of Threatened Vascular > Plant Species in India (Rao *et al.* 2003). > Though mentioned as *Endangered*, it requires review of status since in > the above document it is shown growing only in Kashmir. > This photograph is taken from Kedarnath area (Uttarakhand) but > unfortunately in late season (October) thus have no flowers. The rosettes > of the plants are visible with preformed inflorescence bud in the center of > rosette. > It is an addition to eFI database, I hope. > > Dr D.S.Rawat > Department of Biological Sciences, G.B. Pant University of Agriculture & > Technology Pantnagar-263 145 Uttarakhand, INDIA > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "efloraofindia" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to indiantreepix+unsubscribe@goog legroups.com > <[email protected]>. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] . > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/grou p/indiantreepix > <https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/op tout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. > > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send an email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. 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