Well said Chadwell Ji. Working at higher elevations in the Himalaya is quite difficult. For the last 25 years I have also realized the same. But my visits to higher elevation (maximum up to ca. 5500mi in Gangotri area of Uttarakhand) most of the time were self financed an ill prepared. The results are obvious that I still do not recognize many of the alpine plants. One should be very clear about the habitats of plants when surveying the plants. If a plant collector do not look below shady areas under a boulder Parietaria debilis can not be seen or collected. at least in Uttarakhand. Some of the plants are so tiny that can not be noticed if someone is standing within 1 m. Saxifraga minutissima is one with plants as large as only 1 cm with greenish flowers and the plant is similar to mosses around it. There are many which will appear in redlists because the plant collector were not aware of their habitats.
DSRawat Pantnagar On Thursday, November 24, 2016 at 11:57:41 PM UTC+5:30, [email protected] wrote: > > I am supportive of the sound comments of Dr Rawat. > > One cannot rely upon records from herbaria alone. Active field botanists > who can reliably identify the plants they encounter during > surveys are essential. The relative presence or not of specimens of > particular species collected since Indian Independence cf. before > may just be a reflection of how often and whom, botanises in the higher > mountains..... > > Botanists exhibit varying levels of field skills and ability to cope with > the rigours of exploring for plants in the mountains and this will impact > on what is found. Not everyone is keen to leave the office or herbarium, > especially if those at a higher level do not encourage field botany or > recognise its importance. > > *As a young botanist and team-leader of a survey of riverside vegetation > in Wales 34 years ago (where we surveyed 500km stretches of river-bank) > comparisons for my team of surveyors were made on certain stretches i.e. we > all surveyed the same stretch. None of us spotted every species but, > thankfully, I found the most. Different field workers are more observant > than others. The project compared different stretches of river, assessing > the richness on the basis of total number of plant species and their > rarity. Comparisons I instigated showed that much depended on whom did the > surveying, which those who set up these surveys had not appreciated. The > results were published in a paper in the Journal of Biological > Conservation.* > > It is challenging to botanise methodically and search carefully, > especially in difficult terrain, not least at higher altitudes. Not > everyone can scramble about amongst rocks and boulders or steep > slopes/cliffs. > > I recollect the first time I reached the Baralacha La (pass) between > Lahoul and Rupshu at some 4800m. It was a bright sunny day in 1991. I was > using slide film in those days and KNEW the in-camera light metering would > be confused by the conditions such that if I just took pictures the usual > way the exposure would be wrong. I KNEW I needed to do what was called > "bracketing" the exposure but my head was light from the high elevation and > shortage of oxygen and could not make myself do it..... > > Similarly, I visited Ladakh just a few years ago and reached (again by > vehicle) Chang La (over 5000m) not too far from Leh. I was OK (albeit > slow) when exploring over the pass but during a later stop, struggled even > to move! > > If someone like myself who is robust, spends time acclimatizing and enjoys > being in the mountains, finds it hard-going (at times) then I am sure > others do as well. *Not everyone is comfortable in mountains or copes > with the altitude or can safely negotiate such terrain (in which case they > become a liability).* > > *It MUST be stressed that a true picture of a region's flora cannot be > found solely relying upon what grows within a few metres or at most a few > hundred metres, of a road or track (certain cosmopolitan weeds may occur > disproportionately in such places whilst some species will be missed > altogether). It is ESSENTIAL to both trek into the mountains* and > scramble amongst the rocks and boulders on steep slopes. > > The Czech plant ecologists who have studied the ecology of such plants as > Thylacospermum caespitsoum at the upper limits of flowering plants in > Ladakh are to be commended. They discovered new species and a new genus of > flowering plant. I have not been to such places in Ladakh > @ 5500-6000m! I do not know of too many Indian botanists who have. *It > is IMPOSSIBLE to accurately assess the rarity or abundance of species which > grow amongst rocks and boulders @ 4-5000m e,g. unless one surveys intensely > in such habitats. This has not been happening, let alone 5000m+ (although > species are few and far between at such extremes).* > > I have been lecturing about my travels in the Himalaya to clubs & > societies in the UK for more than 30 years. Audiences are often inspired > by the images I show. When speaking on Ladakh e.g., I stress that typical > reaction of Westerners to such altitudes and conditions are lethargy, > depression and a wish to go home at the earliest opportunity - not helped > by a raking cough caused by the dry air! And many a mountain 'road' is > not for the faint-hearted. > > I myself have suffered from serious gastro-intestinal difficulties (akin > to food poisoning) on numerous occasions and had to return back to the UK > prematurely on my first expedition. I wish I had known on my early > expeditions a quick solution (all such episodes were cleared up within 24 > hours in more recent years - the 'cure' being told me by a UK doctor > working in India). *Must have been mad to continue..... I am reminded of > the song "Mad Dogs and Englishmen go out in the Noon Day sun..."* > > Best Wishes, > > > Chris Chadwell > > > 81 Parlaunt Road > SLOUGH > SL3 8BE > UK > > www.shpa.org.uk > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* D.S Rawat <[email protected]> > *To:* J.M. Garg <[email protected]> > *Cc:* C CHADWELL <[email protected]>; efloraofindia < > [email protected]> > *Sent:* Tuesday, 8 November 2016, 4:40 > *Subject:* Re: [efloraofindia:256025] Re: Plumbaginaceae, Primulaceae & > Myrsinaceae Fortnight 1-14June2014: Primula minutissima from > Uttarakhand_DSR_1 > > The major reason for including species in Red Data Book of Indian Plants > (3 vols published by Botanical Survey of India in 1987,88,90 and edited by > Nayar & Sastry) and later into other such documents like 1997 IUCN Redlist > of Threatened Plants (Rao et al. 2003) was herbarium studies in Indian > herbaria. Species not collected since long or less collected were also > included in list of red taxa in addition to species facing exploitation for > various purposes. > As said by Chadwell Ji, I also believe that the status of these species > need to be reviewed in light of current IUCN criteria and extensive field > work in the probable localities all along their distribution range. > Do we have resources, dedicated field workers ready to explore extremely > difficult terrains, and earnest desire to do so are the issues related to > this aspect of declaring plants Endangered/ Rare / Extinct. > > DSRawat Pantnagar > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Dr D.S. Rawat > Department of Biological Sciences, G.B. Pant University of Agriculture & > Technology Pantnagar-263 145 Uttarakhand, INDIA > *eflorapantnagar* <https://sites.google.com/site/eflorapantnagar/home> > displaying wild flora of Pantnagar > > On Tue, Nov 8, 2016 at 9:27 AM, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: > > Thanks, Chadwell ji > > On 8 Nov 2016 8:37 am, "chrischadwell261@btinternet. com > <[email protected]>" <chrischadwell261@btinternet. com > <[email protected]>> wrote: > > I think this must be *P.minutissima*. Cannot think which other species > it can be. It is a nonsense (as with Saxifraga jacquemontiana) to suggest > this plant is Endangered. It is no such thing. I repeat my comment that I > am at a lost to know how species are included in the Red List of Threatened > Vascular Plants in India (the only reason it is in the IUCN Red List of > Threatened Plants is because they accepted what was submitted - they are in > no position to check, just as the species accepted onto Appendices for > CITES are accepted on no actual evidence as those from the Indian Himalaya > are *not* 'Rare & Endangered'. How can botanists who spend so little > time in the field possibly know what is rare let alone endangered. You do > not discover this from an office!. > > As Primula minutissima grows well in suitable habitat in Ladakh (I have > seen it in several places including irrigation channels), also in the > Kashmir Valley, Kulu Valley and know of it from Baspa Valley, Kinnuar, > where it is flourishing. 'Flowers of Himalaya' say stony slopes in areas > near to the Tibetan border @ 3600-5200m. I don't think the authors of these > 'Red Lists' have spent much time on high passes in the borderlands of Tibet > to know the status of populations of this plant, anymore than they know > about colonies of Saxifraga jacquemontiana - neither of which is under any > threat whatsoever. > > *But what about the species what are GENUINELY rare & endangered.... This > is a seriously wrong situation which needs addressing at the highest levels > nationally and internationally.... Claims of rarity MUST be based upon > reliable and accurate information. How many botanists in India have > regularly botanised and surveyed in the high mountains? And of these, how > many can recognise, whilst in those mountains, such species as > P.minutissima and Saxifraga jacquemontiana. I have to an extent and can > recognise them. So perhaps my reliable evidence is worth listening to.* > > > On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 at 8:13:00 AM UTC+1, D.S Rawat wrote: > > *Primula minutissima* Jacq. ex Duby (Primulaceae) is a tiny carpet > forming herb in alpine zones of Western Himalaya. It is listed in 1997 > IUCN Red List of Threatened Plants and in Red List of Threatened Vascular > Plant Species in India (Rao *et al.* 2003). > Though mentioned as *Endangered*, it requires review of status since in > the above document it is shown growing only in Kashmir. > This photograph is taken from Kedarnath area (Uttarakhand) but > unfortunately in late season (October) thus have no flowers. The rosettes > of the plants are visible with preformed inflorescence bud in the center of > rosette. > It is an addition to eFI database, I hope. > > Dr D.S.Rawat > Department of Biological Sciences, G.B. Pant University of Agriculture & > Technology Pantnagar-263 145 Uttarakhand, INDIA > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "efloraofindia" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to indiantreepix+unsubscribe@goog legroups.com > <[email protected]>. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] . > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/grou p/indiantreepix > <https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/op tout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. > > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send an email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. 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