Thanks, Singh ji. It seems *C. argyracanthum* (POWO <https://powo.science.kew.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:195029-1>) and *C. verutum* (POWO <https://powo.science.kew.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:196173-1>) are a confusing lot in efi postings.
Going by specimens of *C. verutum* (POWO <https://powo.science.kew.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:196173-1>)- one <http://www.kew.org/herbcatimg/358304.jpg> (C. involucratus of FBI) and two <http://www.kew.org/herbcatimg/358305.jpg> (C. involucratus of FBI), I feel all our posts in efi at Cirsium verutum <https://efloraofindia.com/2011/02/15/cirsium-verutum/> look different and matches with specimens of *C. argyracanthum* (POWO <https://powo.science.kew.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:195029-1>)- one <http://apps.kew.org/herbcat/detailsQuery.do?barcode=K001118167>, two <http://apps.kew.org/herbcat/detailsQuery.do?barcode=K000250088>. The post at Cirsium sp?? — enroute Dhel at GHNP – PKA30 <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/indiantreepix/D3CMasVd7g8> may be of *C. verutum* (POWO <https://powo.science.kew.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:196173-1>)- three <http://www.kew.org/herbcatimg/684828.jpg> (C. involucratus of FBI) What do you say? On Sun, 2 Jan 2022 at 12:14, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> wrote: > Garg ji, if you read BSI Flora of India, C. tibeticum is excluded species > as no specimens from India are available > Please also note POWO regards C. argyracanthum DC as accepted name and C. > tibeticum Kit. as its synonym > Both FBI and BSI Flora of India record Heads 3.5 to 6 cm in C. verutum (C. > involucratus of FBI), less than 2,5 cm in C. argyracanthum. BSI Flora > mentions heads pale yellow to white in C. argyracanthum, whereas in all > Bhutan images, images on Flowers of India and elsewhere heads are are > purple in C. verutum. > > On Friday, December 31, 2021 at 10:11:41 PM UTC+5:30 Gurcharan Singh wrote: > >> C. verutum I will upload separately >> >> On Friday, December 31, 2021 at 8:44:35 PM UTC+5:30 JM Garg wrote: >> >>> Pl. consider Cirsium verutum >>> <https://efloraofindia.com/2011/02/15/cirsium-verutum/> as per images >>> and details herein. >>> Flora of Bhutan gives the following keys >>> <https://groups.google.com/g/indiantreepix/c/4HvHdjTQILI>: >>> 8. Wide or narrow, pale, scarious, lacerate appendage on margins of >>> outer and middle phyllaries near base of spine . … *C. wallichii *(specimen >>> at POWO <http://www.kew.org/herbcatimg/359206.jpg>)- 2300-2400 mtr. >>> + Phyllaries uniformly tapered, margin sometimes denticulate but not >>> scarious- dilated near the base of the spine . . . .. 9 >>> 9. Leaves moderately spiny (spines 5mm); phyllaries purplish, outer >>> usually ending in spine 2–4mm . .. .. *C. tibeticum* (syn. of *Cirsium >>> argyracanthum* DC. as per POWO >>> <https://powo.science.kew.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:195029-1>) >>> (specimen at POWO <http://www.kew.org/herbcatimg/684831.jpg>)- 1450 to >>> 2750 mtr. >>> + Leaves very spiny (spines 5-12mm); phyllaries greenish, outer with >>> spines 4-8mm . . . .. *C. verutum *(specimen at GBIF (one >>> <https://www.gbif.org/tools/zoom/simple.html?src=//api.gbif.org/v1/image/unsafe/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nhm.ac.uk%2Fservices%2Fmedia-store%2Fasset%2Fa427e2f6aae50e9a78509e46298f36e031289138%2Fcontents%2Fpreview> >>> , two >>> <https://www.gbif.org/tools/zoom/simple.html?src=//api.gbif.org/v1/image/unsafe/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nhm.ac.uk%2Fservices%2Fmedia-store%2Fasset%2Fdf66eec6a84b7d1dcb6c41f52f988e17450efd90%2Fcontents%2Fpreview>))- >>> 1500 t0 2100 mtr. >>> >>> On Fri, 31 Dec 2021 at 18:56, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> *Cirsium argyracanthum* DC. >>>> incl. C. wallichii var. wightii Kook.f. >>>> The heads like C. wallichii are mostly less than 2.5 cm across, but >>>> heads are crowded in clusters and pale yellow to white, involucre bracts >>>> not dilated, outer ending in long rigid spine, innermost linear long >>>> pointed, leaves glabrous on both surfaces. >>>> Photographed from along road between Maa Bhangayani Temple Sirmour >>>> towards Nohradhar, alt. 2200 m, Himachal Pradesh, 25-5-2015. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>> Retired Associate Professor >>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>> https://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/CAHiXKpX%3DnjP9%2BkB6BgVK0bPLwkTNH5rGjjin9H4J0c1y%3D5p0-w%40mail.gmail.com >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/CAHiXKpX%3DnjP9%2BkB6BgVK0bPLwkTNH5rGjjin9H4J0c1y%3D5p0-w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> With regards, >>> J.M.Garg >>> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "efloraofindia" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/98b18036-c1b4-4a76-878f-57ba3ac828d1n%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/98b18036-c1b4-4a76-878f-57ba3ac828d1n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- With regards, J.M.Garg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. 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