Again many thanks: Pankaj, Gurcharan ji and Vijayasankar ji. Regards.
On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 11:59 PM, Pankaj Kumar <[email protected]>wrote: > Ok Vijay, as you say!! > Regards > Pankaj > > > On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 11:52 PM, Vijayasankar <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Very interesting discussion. > > Change of names in this group has become constant! > > But, I think Schaefer has finally come up with a solution for the > confusion > > in the nomenclature by merging the closely allied 'genera', though he has > > added few more new names in addition to the existing list. But, GRIN seem > to > > have updated the nomenclature based on some ref. (on 26 June 2007) before > > publication of Schaefer's paper (published on 4 July 2007). > > > > Anyway, we should be aware that Cucumis ritchei is not our Cucumella > ritchei > > which is now Cucumis indicus!! > > And from now we will call Mukia maderaspata as Cucumis maderaspatanus. > > Thanks Pankaj for the references. > > > > Regards > > > > Vijayasankar > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> > > wrote: > >> > >> Our last mails overlapped ... !!! > >> Many thanks once again for digging deeper !!! > >> > >> Hopefully friends pursuing Mukia and Cucumis will resolve this > confusion. > >> > >> Regards. > >> > >> > >> > >> On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 11:19 PM, Pankaj Kumar <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> No sir, its not because of popularity in this case. On the basis of > >>> popularity a wrong name can be accepted like they do for Orchidaceae. > >>> Like Orchidaceae described my Jussieu is accepted though the one > >>> described by Adanson was older. Former name (Orchidaceae Juss.) was > >>> conserved. > >>> > >>> Here the main reason given is the genetic makeup of the taxa which is > >>> given in the three references I provided in my last mail. On the basis > >>> of popularity it could have been done, but merging 5 different genera > >>> into one is a big deal!! > >>> > >>> Regards > >>> Pankaj > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 11:10 PM, Dinesh Valke <[email protected] > > > >>> wrote: > >>> > Many thanks Pankaj for your clarifications ... yet hoping we get to > >>> > know of > >>> > facts. > >>> > > >>> > Mukia maderaspatana is a very popular name ... it is found in many > >>> > literature (old non-botanic)... on the contrary, Cucumis > maderaspatanus > >>> > is > >>> > lesser found. > >>> > > >>> > From the two references, GRIN and IPNI, whatever status they show of > >>> > this > >>> > species currently ... thoughts coming to my mind: ... for some > reason, > >>> > Cucumis maderaspatanus gains currency somewhere in the recent past > >>> > (justifying GRIN's effort of stating it) ... for some reason, the old > >>> > popular name regains its status and becomes the accepted name (as per > >>> > your > >>> > clarifications). > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Regards. > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 10:32 PM, Gurcharan Singh < > [email protected]> > >>> > wrote: > >>> >> > >>> >> Thanks a lot for the information, Pankaj ji > >>> >> > >>> >> -- > >>> >> Dr. Gurcharan Singh > >>> >> Retired Associate Professor > >>> >> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 > >>> >> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. > >>> >> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 > >>> >> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/<http://people.du.ac.in/%7Esinghg45/> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 8:46 AM, Pankaj Kumar < > [email protected]> > >>> >> wrote: > >>> >>> > >>> >>> There was a project undertaken by Natural History Museum London, > >>> >>> called, The Linnaean Plant Name Typification Project. Headed by Dr. > >>> >>> Charles Jarvis a very senior taxonomist, who happens to be on my > >>> >>> friend list. They came out with a book called, "Order Out of Chaos: > >>> >>> Linnaean Plant Names and Their Types". In this he provided > >>> >>> information > >>> >>> on the status of Type Specimens of Linnaeus and of those he > referred > >>> >>> and the species what he had described. The books gives the details > of > >>> >>> type and lectotypes of all the taxa described by Linnaeus along > with > >>> >>> their currently accepted names. According to the book, the > currently > >>> >>> accepted name is Mukia maderaspatana (L.) M.Roem.. The book was > >>> >>> released in 2007 and I am yet to have a copy of it :(. > >>> >>> > >>> >>> IPNI does provide the synonyms as well as basionyms and in this > >>> >>> particular taxa, it claims Cucumis as basionym. If you check the > >>> >>> record history of the taxa then there are editings done by > "BARKER". > >>> >>> I > >>> >>> know Dr. Tina Barker at IPNI personally, so I may ask her, but as > the > >>> >>> site claims, most probably, her answer will be same. > >>> >>> > >>> >>> Even JSTOR accepts Mukia as accepted name. > >>> >>> > >>> >>> http://plants.jstor.org/flora/ftea001827 (I am not sure if you can > >>> >>> open this link, I can because I am a member of it). > >>> >>> > >>> >>> Note that GRIN database claims that it was last updated in 2008, > but > >>> >>> updation there may not mean updation in the synonymy but also any > >>> >>> other information on the webpage of particular species, that may > >>> >>> include other references. > >>> >>> > >>> >>> IPNI may be wrong, and so can be GRIN, but I trust Dr. Charles > Jarvis > >>> >>> and > >>> >>> JSTOR. > >>> >>> > >>> >>> I am not forcing my point here. I am giving my reference and you > are > >>> >>> giving yours. We just need to check who is correct. Both have our > >>> >>> references to support our views. > >>> >>> > >>> >>> Regards > >>> >>> Pankaj > >>> >>> > >>> >>> -- > >>> >>> *********************************************** > >>> >>> "TAXONOMISTS GETTING EXTINCT AND SPECIES DATA DEFICIENT !!" > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> Pankaj Kumar Ph.D. (Orchidaceae) > >>> >>> Research Associate > >>> >>> Greater Kailash Sacred Landscape Project > >>> >>> Department of Habitat Ecology > >>> >>> Wildlife Institute of India > >>> >>> Post Box # 18 > >>> >>> Dehradun - 248001, India > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> *********************************************** > >>> "TAXONOMISTS GETTING EXTINCT AND SPECIES DATA DEFICIENT !!" > >>> > >>> > >>> Pankaj Kumar Ph.D. (Orchidaceae) > >>> Research Associate > >>> Greater Kailash Sacred Landscape Project > >>> Department of Habitat Ecology > >>> Wildlife Institute of India > >>> Post Box # 18 > >>> Dehradun - 248001, India > >> > > > > > > > > -- > *********************************************** > "TAXONOMISTS GETTING EXTINCT AND SPECIES DATA DEFICIENT !!" > > > Pankaj Kumar Ph.D. (Orchidaceae) > Research Associate > Greater Kailash Sacred Landscape Project > Department of Habitat Ecology > Wildlife Institute of India > Post Box # 18 > Dehradun - 248001, India >
