Dear Pankaj I agree with all your points. I do remember when i had send my first paper to one of the International journal they had made it fully red by marking on many pages and points. It was disgusting to see. But that is how we learn to be better and better, The point is the papers are really previewed, checked and published. Probably that is why they get high raning in marking, because those who are decision makers also know the condition of our journals. I do agree marks are to be given for work, but there has to be some baseline to work on . It just cannt be left to interview committees otherwise i dont have to tell the mockery of interviews too. Hence these guide lines of markings are decided by UGC, NAAC. There are other criterias like citation index, Peer reviewed journals,etc for marking. when we think of the paper making available to public, it is now really essential that the paper should be available on net. i remeber when i was doing my Ph.D.I had to travel about three hours to and fro for reaching a library, minimum eight hours in library to copy the research papers(photocopier was not afforded by all libraries and researchers then). Can the present day researchers spend that much time in writting the research references? Can you think of it ? No. Then in that case how many research journals from India are ready to come or have come online? So how will get any citation index? who among us now will go in hunt of Physical journals unless absolutely needed? In my college we get around 30 research journals in physical format. We also have free access to Jstor.can all institutes afford it. I mean once we start thinking there are too many angles to the point. Any way I agree that marks are to be given for the work. But here Pankaj I will like to tell you that a person like you who is really a hardworker get much more than marks that is the International recognition. and we are proud of it. Because it is absolutely needed now to show that we are no less in research. but there are very few who are hard core researchers too. thanks for the responce. Am i writting too big mails/ Generally I dont, because I dont want to heart anybodies feelings. I can as well keep my opinions to myself. So if some one dont want any discussion further on this matter, pl let me know, so that i will not answer the further mails thank you Madhuri
--- On Thu, 16/6/11, Dr Pankaj Kumar <[email protected]> wrote: > From: Dr Pankaj Kumar <[email protected]> > Subject: [efloraofindia:71840] Re: TWO NEW SPECIES OF ERIOCAULON > (ERIOCAULACEAE) FROM INDIA......!!! > To: "efloraofindia" <[email protected]> > Date: Thursday, 16 June, 2011, 6:55 PM > Dear Manu > You can upload the paper here. > > Respected Madhuri mam, > I am against giving points to articles from international > journals. > Marks should be given on the quality of the paper, language > and the > effort put in for the results. When I described my first > new species > of Orchids, it took me 3 years nearly to confirm the genus > because > flowers were too small and then I put in more effort to add > as much > information as I can and then I sent it to Kew Bulletin. > The best > thing is, when you send to these journals of high repute, > these are > instantaneously catalogued at Kew and the checklist. > Another example, I know of some people, who send there > mediocre > articles to international journals, they get rejected and > then publish > it in a very mediocre indian journal. > There is totally lack of confidence on the thing presented > in the > papers in both cases. Many such indian journals are now a > days very > badly misused for publications of irrelevant informations > which no one > can stop. > I still say I am not against Indian journals, I just prefer > them to be > properly reviewed and properly published on time. They need > to have a > good panel of reviewers and not just the names. I know of > journals who > put names of international reviewers who actually never > review any > papers for them. > Pankaj > > > > > On Jun 16, 4:40 pm, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Dear friends > > A really interesting discussion on patriotism, > relevance and reality. There > > can be no two opinions on the fact that whenever an > aspirant for getting > > into job, seeking promotion or award has to face an > interview, the Indian > > experts on the panel tend to ask this perennial > question. How many of your > > published papers are International journals?, and for > them Indian Journals > > big or small (including Bulletin Botanical Survey of > India, JBNHS, Journal > > of Indian Botanical Society) are not to be counted in > International > > Journals, whereas any journal published outside India, > big or small is an > > International Journal. > > This is a reality that was there 30 years > back, and that still exists, > > and till it continues we can't blame our researchers. > This is where we have > > to learn from Russian or German workers. But only the > people who matter and > > not the emerging scientists have to take a lead. > > I hope this is taken purely as expression of > my experience and > > nothing to support one or the other viewpoint. > > > > -- > > Dr. Gurcharan Singh > > Retired Associate Professor > > SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, > Delhi-110007 > > Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. > > Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ > > > > On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 12:29 PM, Madhuri Pejaver > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Vijayshankarji > > > Nice reading the discussion. > > > Few more points to add > > > 1. How can we say that the new sps identifiedin > Africa is not having > > > relevance in Indian Context? Isnt it the world > biodiversity we have to > > > consider? In evolutionary links dont we take > the geographical distribtion > > > into consideration and try to give the evlutionay > significance?Can we name > > > differently the sps discovered in India than > the same discovered in > > > Africa? then we are not following the rules of > Binomial nomenclature. > > > For this the taxanomist in India must know the > sps existing not only in > > > Africa but in entire world. Then only new sps can > be claimed. > > > 2. As what mentioned International publications > are having weightage not > > > only to get jobs but to maintain jobs also. Even > UGC has given different > > > marks for International journal publications and > Indian Journal publications > > > in the new payscale, NAAC experts when visit > college for accreditation look > > > into these details too. > > > 3. All the other difficulties faced by all who > have written are true but in > > > addition when we think of getting a copy of the > paper Forien authors respond > > > promptly to our mails or letters and many a times > send the copy of their > > > papers free, Indian many of the athors dont > access mails, or dont respond to > > > mails neither posts. So unless the journal is > available online the > > > publication remains hidden. > > > 4. Many a time in Indian journals not only the > one related taxanomy but > > > other too. the journals are not peer reviewd. So > the quality of journals > > > also matters. > > > Not that i have published many papers in > International journals but when my > > > students or colleuges send their papers these are > the difficulties we face, > > > If the paper is lying in one of the journals > office for years togather and > > > if someone else publish the paper on the same > line who gets the credit? > > > Tese are my few thoughts, No way i want to give > higher credits to > > > International publications but we have to > improve, > > > Madhuri > > > > > -- On *Thu, 16/6/11, Vijayasankar <[email protected]>* > wrote: > > > > > From: Vijayasankar <[email protected]> > > > Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:71805] Re: TWO NEW > SPECIES OF ERIOCAULON > > > (ERIOCAULACEAE) FROM INDIA......!!! > > > To: "H S" <[email protected]> > > > Cc: "manudev madhavan" <[email protected]>, > "Ritesh Choudhary" < > > > [email protected]>, > "efloraofindia" <[email protected]> > > > Date: Thursday, 16 June, 2011, 11:50 AM > > > > > Thank you all for your nice responses and > opinion. > > > > > Dear Ritesh, first of all I am not against > publishing in intl. journals. > > > The context here is very specific, about the > relevance....and of course its > > > my personal opinion only. Imagine a new species > discovered in Africa or > > > Europe getting published in an Indian journal. It > may not be wrong....but > > > what about the relevancy here. It may be > searcheable in those journals, but > > > what about accessible of full articles. And these > impact factors are just to > > > compare the efficiency of journals and not to > judge the capability or > > > knowledge of the author or the institution, i > guess. How the impact factors > > > matter in the field of taxonomy in India. I > understand its importance in > > > other fields such as chemistry etc. Impact factor > is mainly based on number > > > of documents and number of citable items > published in a particular journal. > > > If all scientists want to publish their high > quality papers in foreign > > > journals, how Indian journals will get citations > and impact factors? Leave > > > alone the money part... Is it not important what > we publish...rather than > > > where we publish?!... > > > > > Thanks Manudev ji for taking this in a right > spirit, and also for sharing > > > your experience. Best wishes for all your future > publications. [Please check > > > with the journal's policy before circulating / > sharing the pdf files. If it > > > allows, I would like to read the paper, as I have > published a new sp in > > > Eriocaulon, too:) ]. > > > > > Dear Pankaj, you are right. Sadly, two of my > articles sent to one of the > > > most reputed journals in India, were accepted for > publication in 2005 and > > > 2006 respectively, but they are not yet > published. But the happy news is > > > that the authorities are coming forward to make > their journal online with > > > free access to full articles. We have best > examples for that. Hope to see > > > much more positive developments in our Indian > taxonomic journals par with > > > their foreign counterparts. > > > > > Thanks Usha ji, for supporting my view and also > adding to the discussion. > > > > > Regards > > > > > Vijayasankar Raman > > > National Center for Natural Products Research > > > University of Mississippi > > > > > On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 11:52 PM, H S <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > really good and needed discussion.. > > > > > Vijay ji, Ritesh ji and Manudev ji thanx for your > inputs.... > > > > > regards, > > > > > On 6/16/11, manudev madhavan > > > <[email protected]<http://in.mc947.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]>> > > > wrote: > > > > Thanks to all... > > > > > > I am happy that my thread has lead the > members to another discussion on > > > > Indian journals. > > > > Let me tell my experience.. > > > > When I had attended few interviews, > international papers where > > > > much favored than those papers published in > Indian journals there. > > > > Let me tell you that our first priority was > "the reachability of the > > > > findings to the scientific community" when > we tried to publish these. > > > > Unfortunately none of our Indian taxonomy > journals are available online( > > > > except Nelumbo & & Rheedea..!!). > > > > > > Also I would like to add.. > > > > I found it difficult to collect those papers > published in Indian journals > > > > than foreign journals during my literature > survey. Still I am in search > > > for > > > > some papers published in some Indian > journals from Bengal Botanical > > > Society. > > > > I couldn't even find a copy of them in CAL > too. > > > > when I wrote to the librarian > ofwww.biodiversityheritagelibrary.orgabout > > > > including Indian journals in their website, > she told me that they do not > > > > have much access to Indian Journals.. > Anyway, I came to know that, all > > > the > > > > volumes of Rheedea will be available through > biodiversityheritagelibrary > > > > soon. > > > > > > I hope the scenario will be changed soon.. > > > > > > Anyway, Vijay ji, Ritesh ji, am considering > an Indian journal for my next > > > > paper, which is under progress..!!! > > > > > > For those who need the reprints of the > paper, please drop me a mail.. > > > > Am out of station now. Will be sending the > reprint soon, when I am back > > > to > > > > my lab. > > > > > > with warm regards > > > > > > On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 7:06 AM, Ritesh > Choudhary > <[email protected]<http://in.mc947.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > >> Dear Vijay Anna! > > > > > >> Little difference of opinion... > > > > > >> I think publishing a new species in some > foreign journal with good > > > >> impact factor is not bad. They can be > reached more easily to the > > > >> scientific community than those > published at the local level. Still > > > >> most of the Indian plant taxonomy > journals are not available online. > > > >> You've to face a lot of trouble to find > articles published in journals > > > >> like Indian Forester, Indian Journal of > Forestry or many more. > > > >> Thankfully, Nelumbo (Bull. Bot. Surv. > India) and Rheedea are available > > > >> online for a couple of months but still > they cannot be found under the > > > >> SCI Index or other databases like > Science Direct or Scopus. And as far > > > >> as the payment to read an article is > concerned....even the most > > > >> popular Indian taxonomy journal JETB (J. > Econ. Taxon. Bot.) is not > > > >> available freely. > > > > > >> But, yes,, I would be happy if somebody > publishes the new > > > >> distributional records or anything > related in particular context to > > > >> India to the Indian Journals. > > > > > >> Hope u'll b agree (not angry ;-)) with > my points. > > > > > >> Best regards, > > > >> Ritesh. > > > > > > -- > > > > Manudev K Madhavan > > > > Junior Research Fellow > > > > Systematic & Floristic Lab, > > > > Department of Botany, > > > > Centre for Postgraduate Studies & > Research > > > > St. Joseph's College, Devagiri > > > > Kozhikode- 673 008 > > > > Mob: 9496470738 > > > > > -- > > > - H.S. > > > > > A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no > affections, - a mere heart of > > > stone > > > > > > > > 330.gif > > < 1KViewDownload >
