At 10:57 AM 5/11/03 +1100, Gordon Ramsay wrote:
Firstly, I have been a bit surprised that all of the angst has come out over the consecration of a USA bishop. My surprise is that it is about "bishops". And if a gay person is being consecrated as a bishop, they're already a priest. I would have thought that the problem would have been just as significant with a gay person being a priest as with being a bishop. If any major falling out was to take place, shouldn't it have happened earlier over gay priests, rather than waiting till one got to be a bishop? Any ideas on this one?
Yes I have had similar thoughts. I think the difference for the people in question (Gene Robinson and Jeffery Johns) is that at the time of their ordination they were not openly gay and/or not openly in a gay relationship. When they subsequently "came out" or started a relationship, there is not a significant defining moment at which to protest. And I'm not sure what would be the mechanism for removing a priest - maybe that is considered too hard.
But that raises another question - have there been any attempts to ordain a priest who is in a homosexual relationship? If yes, why were they not protested? If no, perhaps that shows that it is easier for conservative elements to keep these people out of the priesthood entirely - it is easier to raise doubts about a persons suitability for ministry *before* they are in ministry. But for Gene Robinson to be considered bishop material he must have shown himself to be rather suitable for ministry, so it is more difficult to raise popular doubts.
Secondly, in the interview on Lateline the other night, Peter Jensen (who I thought did pretty well) also talked about the difficulty he had with the proposed consecration of a celibate gay man as a bishop earlier this year (which did not proceed). I thought his argument had pretty good internal validity - but it revolved around the fact that the man "had not repented" of an earlier gay relationship. Therefore adherence and commitment to Celibacy in Singleness and Faithfulness in Marriage (CISAFIM) was not a good enough sexual ethic.
It was the first time that I think I had heard CISAFIM being described as insufficient from someone in the quite conservative part of the argument.
I guess it is a fine line but I suppose Jensen would say that adherence and commitment to CISAFIM needs to include repentance for transgressions against it. And I think that most christians would expect the same principle to apply whether they were committed to, say, the 10 commandments or to the great commandment. As it happens, I'm not sure that Johns is saying he is committed to CISAFIM, just that he is celibate.
Kind regards, Lindsay Brash.
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