G'day Jonathan and the Group
At 01:32 AM 17/12/03 -0500, Jonathan Arthur wrote:
Hello Andrew,
Andrew Alder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>At 11:39 PM 14/12/03 -0500, Jonathan Arthur wrote:
>
>>Andrew Alder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> >Hmmm. I think you presuppose here that a person in a homosexual
>> >relationship *is* qualified for ordained ministry, or at least that they
>> >can be. But as I understand it, that's the main question.
>>
>>Yes. As I see it, the qualifications for ordained ministry are independent
>>of sexual orientation.
>But I don't think *anyone* is denying that "the qualifications for ordained
>ministry are independent of sexual orientation". (1)
>What *is* in question is homosexual *practice*. But I think it's also
>agreed that orientation and practice are related but separate issues. So
>on one of these two issues, orientation, there is agreement. On the other,
>practice, there is no agreement.
I believe I understand what you are saying. However, I'd like to suggest the issue is *still* one of orientation.
I think many of us agree that one of the qualifications for ordained
ministry is adherance to certain standards (e.g. faithfulness) in regard
to the _expression_ of the individual's sexuality (of whatever orientation).
However, the issue is whether these standards are the same for homosexual
and heterosexual people. One perspective on this issue is that the
standards differ.
Hmmm. Has anyone ever expressed this "perspective" to you? Who?
This is fundamentally about orientation again because,
in this perspective, the person's orientation alters the standards to
be applied.
OK. But I'm still a bit puzzled by *whose* opinion this might be.
As I see it, these standards are independent of sexual orientation.
And I'd agree. And I think so would everyone who has expressed an opinion on this list.
Orientation should not enter into it. On that we seem to have have complete agreement.
Cheers,
Jonathan
PS I guess there is a secondary issue here where we agree the standards
are independent, but don't agree on what the standards are.
IMO, that is a core issue. It seems to be the situation we actually face.
YiCaa
email: andrewa @ alder . ws
http://www.zeta.org.au/~andrewa
Phone 9441 4476
Mobile 04 2525 4476
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