Hello Andrew, Niall, and others... I have selectively snipped the text to try and keep the history short. I think I have still captured the central thread.
Andrew Alder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Jonathan wrote: >> For example, I think the view that: >> >> * if you are heterosexual and desire ordination, you can choose from >> celibacy OR a committed, faithful relationship as an appropriate way to >> express your sexuality >> * if you are homosexual and desire ordination, you can only choose celibacy >> >> is very common amongst those opposing the ordination of gay and lesbian >> people. > I'm guessing that perhaps the view of these people, whoever they are, would > be better expressed very simply: "No sex outside of marriage." Your response, and that of Niall, refers to what I meant about pushing on to the next level. Specifically, I think you both are refering to my use of the �term "committed, faithful relationship" and perhaps suggesting the appropriate standard I am refering to is really: "You can choose from celibacy or marriage as an appropriate way to express your sexuality." Furthermore, this standard applies equally to heterosexual and homosexual people and therefore does not discriminate. Is this a fair summary of your posts? > Your complex version of the rule does discriminate. The simple version > doesn't. Your complex version doesn't reflect reality. The simple one does. I am arguing the simple rule, or the paraphrase I have given above, DOES discriminate. It just hides the discrimination at another level. In particular, it hides the position that "If you are heterosexual you can get married, if you are homosexual you cannot get married." I think this is discrimination based on sexual orientation. > If you mean that there are many who oppose ordination just on > the grounds of orientation (1), that's simply not true. Yes, I mean there are people who oppose ordination just on the grounds of orientation, although it appears from this thread that for some people this connection to orientation is buried as described above. Cheers, Jonathan __________________________________________________________________ New! Unlimited Access from the Netscape Internet Service. Beta test the new Netscape Internet Service for only $1.00 per month until 3/1/04. Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Act now to get a personalized email address! Netscape. Just the Net You Need. ------------------------------------------------------ - You are subscribed to the mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put in the message body 'unsubscribe insights-l' (ell, not one (1)) See: http://nsw.uca.org.au/insights-l-information.htm ------------------------------------------------------
