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Gday Charles, I'm not wanting to get into a debate over our understandings of scripture, nor do I wish to get into a debate about "what is a christian" or "what is an agnostic." firstly because I believe that it's an unhelpful discussion and making a judgement call that I feel that each of us, (especially me) are not capeable of doing, (probably why we're called not to judge). Secondly, I'm not sure if that'd actually please you in any way, because frankly I'm not sure "why" you felt the need to say this in this particular forum. You say in your email that "someone had to play out of bounds and say it" yet I'm not sure if that is actually the case. Noone did actually have to say it, but obviously you did feel the need to talk about it in some forum, and I am glad that you felt cofortable in doing so on this list. I'm just not sure why you felt the need to say this, did you just want a statement or did you want to start a debate or an argument? I am glad that you felt comfortable, however I am also concerned that some people on this list might see this as a personal attack, something which I personally do not wish in participating in, because there are some on this list who I am only just beginning to get to know and many others who I do not know. I feel that personal attacks on members, ministers and participants in these discussions is not necessary. I do feel bad about your previous experience of being hammered down, I had read your earlier post and unfortunately it got put in a long line of emails to respond to. I wish now that I and others had responded in a different way, because if we had perhaps you might have felt comfortable in starting a discussion rather than making a long statement that seemed to be aiming at attacking particular members of this list. Another thing I'd like to respond to is your statement of "most of us are adults and can speak the truth, and someone should be brave enough to speak out." In particular I'd like to enter into a discussion on "What is the Truth?" because quite frankly your truth, even in response to UTC's education and members of this list and even naming some ministers as agnostic quite simply does not match to my truth. Last week I spent a week with Christine and Clive from UTC as a part of an intensive Youth Theology course and found that their teaching was not only very biblical but asked a lot of interesting questions as to how we as ministers, youth workers, youth read the bible and the culture around us. If our truths on this particular matter differ, then it is also quite likely that our truth's on many other issues might differ. My truth at my last house is that Vegemite is better than Promite, but one of my housemate's truth was that Vegemite paled in comparison. I try not to use the word truth in this context, it seems to bring up way too many conflicts, much of the conflicts in Iraq, Israel, even the conflicts between the Labor Party and the Liberal Party can be seen as people who's Truth's differ, I do not see these conflicts as healthy or necessary. And it is because of this that I do not feel comfortable in, nor do I believe that this is the apropriate space to be debating what Truth is, or who's understanding of the Bible is correct, or who's faith is better than the others. In regards to your subject, what have Ministers lost their faith in? God, the Church, the UCA, us as members? or was your subject refering to these members of the Church who are a part of this list or not who do not have the same faith that you do? This also confuses me. In response to your earlier email I would like to suggest a very small booklet titled "FUNDAMENTALISM - A Misunderstanding of Religious Experience" by Michael Fallon, m.s.c. I have found it a fantastic book when thinking about Fundamentalism, and it's only 39 pages long. I could go on, but I will stop now, primarily due to it being late and very cold, but I would like to say that I would like to see this conversation continue on the list as long as it refrains from insulting or attacking members of this list. It is helpful to be reminded that the lurker to community participant ratio is about 10:1 and that this community is much larger than what it seems. Shalom -- Darren Wright Sinner Youth and Family Worker UCA NSW Synod Presbytery of Canberra Region GPO Box 221. Canberra. ACT. 2601. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02 6248 9311 (office) "The Gospel must be constantly forwarded to a new address, because the recipient is repeatedly changing place of residence." - Helmut Thielicke |
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