Hi Paul. Your message was a little unclear, perhaps due to fast typing, which I guess underlines the importance of the issue for you.
We often mix up what we mean by Church, use the same term for different layers of the structures, and for many people the differences are too subtle to recognise (makes me think of Shrek and his discussion of onions with Donkey). Especially door knockers. We might say we're a member of the Uniting Church in Australia, and also a member of a particular local congregation (Croydon, Victoria in my case). We're both, but the body that actually makes decisions about who to ordain as ministers is a council that sits between these, called the Presbytery. In some other traditions/denominations, the Presbytery is the house where the priest lives (Roman Catholic), or is a close to the term used for a senior leader who's not ordained (a Presbyter), which makes the issue less clear for door knockers. But it's not the national Uniting Church in Australia (either the triennial meeting called the Assembly, nor the national office of staff members called the Assembly) who makes the decision to ordain a particular person, nor the local congregation. The Assembly makes policy decisions, not actual decisions in individual cases. What the Assembly has consistently re-affirmed is the responsibility of each Presbytery in making its own decision, and that sexuality in itself is no bar to ordination. Each candidate must be considered on their own merits. Sounds a bit like Grace to me. This issue isn't all that different to the issue of women's ordination, in which the Uniting Church stands defiantly against most of the other Christian churches around the world. We believe that in direct opposition to much of the Church's tradition, and to some readings of Scripture, God calls us to ordain women as well as men: for us it's following a leading of the Spirit, a matter of conscience. It's not bowing to secular pressure like the feminist movement, because the traditions which formed the UCA had been ordaining women for decades before the UCA formed (some, at least, thanks be to God). Such an open position on that particular aspect of theology has enabled Biblical scholars to uncover very significant examples of leadership by women in both the OT and NT. So the UCA is really just being orthodox. Regards, Rohan Rohan Pryor Manager, Information Technology Services Synod of Victoria and Tasmania Uniting Church in Australia Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ph: (03) 9251 5243 Fax: (03) 9654 4110 Website: http://vic.uca.org.au -----Original Message----- From: Paul Johnson [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 10:09 AM To: Insights Subject: Gay Minsiters Question ? I know there has been some debate with the gay Minister's issue on this group and within the Church as whole, but my question is: Is the Church supposedly turn its back on making a decision to excepting or not excepting of Gay people in the Church? Everybody gets them those doorknockers from another 'Church ?' They come to my door and like a Salesman want to know what church I go to, and when I tell them they carry on this there is some Christian that have wrong and maybe the Uniting Church is promoting this. Say that because we may except Gay people in our ranks we are mislead and supposedly going to Hell. They then discuses Laws and Revelations. It seems to me that these people don't know what grace, fogginess and what love is. Certainly its a personal question, people's sexuality, but what about 'Gay Ministers'? I know you have been discussing this for sometime now. Its up to the Church to finally make a decision and leave it there. There is always someone who will disagree, that's what make life so interesting. One sin is not less important that another, and in the end we will be judged by God and not by our peers. So do these doorknockers come like Salesmen with their belief in hope that I want their selling? Paul Johnson ARMIDALE NSW Carer Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ------------------------------------------------------ - You are subscribed to the mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put in the message body 'unsubscribe insights-l' (ell, not one (1)) See: http://nsw.uca.org.au/insights-l-information.htm ------------------------------------------------------
