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Hi, all,

I agree with Jari's suggestion about merging the mechanisms described.

Regarding NATs, they already don't listen to MUSTs, so I don't see the
point in issuing SHOULDs they're going to ignore as well ;-)

Joe

Jari Arkko wrote:
> Overall, this draft specifies a useful function and I believe it should 
> move forward.
> 
> There are a number of details that need a bit of adjustment before the 
> draft is ready, however. Please see details further down in this e-mail.
> 
> There is one big question as well. There has been some discussion about 
> the usefulness of next hop information and whether 
> draft-watkins-icmptype11code0 should also move forward, or if the drafts 
> should merge. Having read the two drafts together now, my opinion is 
> that adding a flag and 2nd IP address for the next hop for an outgoing 
> interface object seems like a good approach. This would allow reporting 
> an outgoing interface AND its next hop information (where available).
> 
> Another interesting issue is treatment by NATs. Given that the 
> information is primarily for debugging and that any modification or 
> removal of this information by a NAT could interfere with that, my 
> suggestion is that NAT devices SHOULD merely pass this extension along.
> 
> Technical:
> 
>> Extending ICMP to Identify the Receiving Interface
>> Abstract
>>
>> This memo defines ICMP extensions, using ICMP multi-part messages,
>> through which a router or host can explicitly identify the interface
>> upon which an undeliverable datagram anrrived.
>>
>> ...
>>
>> Using the extension defined herein, an IP device can explicitly
>> identify the incoming interface by any or all of the following:
>>
>> o  IPv4 address
>> o  IPv6 address
>> o  name
>> o  ifIndex
>>
>> Using the extension defined herein, an IP device can explicitly
>> identify by the above the outgoing interface and next-hop over which
>> a datagram would have been forwarded if that datagram had been
>> deliverable.
>>
>> ...
>>
>> 3.2. Policy and MTU Detection
>>
>> A general application would be to identify which outgoing interface
>> triggered a given function for the original packet.
>> ...
>> 0 : This object describes the incoming interface.
>> 1 : This object describes the outgoing interface.
>>   
> 
> First, the title is misleading, and the abstract does not mention the 
> ability to identify outgoing interfaces. Second, how does the 
> identification of the outgoing interface follow from the identification 
> of the incoming interface, given things like ECMP?
> 
> Since the draft does, after all, support identifying outgoing interfaces 
> as well that fact should be better reflected in title, abstract, etc.
> 
>> 3 : When set, this bit indicates the ifIndex of the interface is 
>> included.  When clear, the ifIndex is not included.
> Encoded how? How many bytes?
> 
>> Another issue is when a device inside a private region generates an 
>> ICMP message with some of these extensions and that ICMP message will 
>> transit a NAT to reach its destination.  A NAT may choose to remove or 
>> overwrite the extensions.
> First, please clarify whether leaving the extension alone is also legal. 
> This is obviously what a legacy NAT would do, of course, so I don't feel 
> good about outlawing it.
> 
> Second, I think we need a stronger recommendation on what the NATs 
> should do about this, so that the NAT vendors can do the right thing. 
> However, its not entirely clear to me what the right thing is. In 
> particular, even if this extension passes a NAT the optional addresses 
> included in it may or may not still be valid on the other side of the 
> NAT. And this has nothing to do with the type of the addresses (private 
> or public), it has to do with the topology of the network -- and this 
> may not be something that the NAT device understands.
> 
> One approach would be to say that this information is for debugging 
> only, and therefore SHOULD be left alone. Thoughts?
> 
>>  Interface Name Sub-Object
> Shouldn't there be some discussion about truncation in case the real 
> name does not fit this object?
> 
> Editorial:
> 
>> upon which an undeliverable datagram anrrived.  The incoming
> Typo
> 
>>    Bit   7     6      |   5       4       3       2       1       0
>>       +-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+
>>       | Interface Role| Rsvd  | Rsvd  | index | IP    | Rsvd  | descr |
>>       +-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+
>>   
> For what it is worth, I found this figure illustrative, but the text 
> that accompanied it was confusing. For one thing, the text discusses two 
> fields "Interface Role" and "Included Information" which are not shown 
> here. For another, the bits are later referred to by their numbers, not 
> names. I would suggest sticking to the names in the figure and removing 
> the concept of the "Included Information" field.
> 
>> The information/sub-objects MUST be sent and received inside the 
>> Interface Information Object in the order that they are listed in the 
>> final 6-bits included-information field.
> Just say:
> 
> "The ifIndex, address, and name follow the C-type octet, in this order, 
> if present."
> 
> or something to that effect. Avoid referring to the confusing 
> included-information field. Also, the ifIndex and address were by my 
> understanding not proper objects, it was just bytes following the C field.
> 
>> 4.3. Interface Information Object Description
> 
> Wouldn't this be better as "Examples"?
> 
>> Figure 4 depicts the Interface Information Object, with two of the 
>> valid permutations.
> 
> Three, but who's counting :-)
> 
>>    o  Bit 3: ifIndex include
> 
> included
> 
> Jari
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> [email protected]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area
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