Folks,
Has anyone proposed text that:
a) satisfies Alissa's request
b) satisfies the WG
If not, do we believe that such text could possibly exist?
Ron
Juniper Business Use Only
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian E Carpenter <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2019 8:55 PM
To: Alissa Cooper <[email protected]>; Tom Herbert <[email protected]>
Cc: Joel Halpern <[email protected]>;
[email protected]; int-area <[email protected]>; IESG
<[email protected]>; intarea-chairs <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Int-area] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on
draft-ietf-intarea-frag-fragile-15: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
On 07-Aug-19 12:11, Alissa Cooper wrote:
> Hi Tom,
>
>> On Aug 6, 2019, at 5:41 PM, Tom Herbert <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 1:30 PM Alissa Cooper via Datatracker
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for
>>> draft-ietf-intarea-frag-fragile-15: Discuss
>>>
>>> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to
>>> all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to
>>> cut this introductory paragraph, however.)
>>>
>>>
>>> Please refer to
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf.org_ie
>>> sg_statement_discuss-2Dcriteria.html&d=DwIFaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0
>>> UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=Fch9FQ82sir-BoLx84hKuKwl-AWF2EfpHcAwrDThKP
>>> 8&m=IUZsPOprgYi_5nBSPGeqNCLb8LwDMKCxRNeEBfcUZ5c&s=c7tAk-Lfr6pcQSMn1x
>>> 1tdfjkQsL8F_NryIiq3caZ26k&e= for more information about IESG DISCUSS
>>> and COMMENT positions.
>>>
>>>
>>> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__datatracker.iet
>>> f.org_doc_draft-2Dietf-2Dintarea-2Dfrag-2Dfragile_&d=DwIFaQ&c=HAkYuh
>>> 63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=Fch9FQ82sir-BoLx84hKuKwl-AWF
>>> 2EfpHcAwrDThKP8&m=IUZsPOprgYi_5nBSPGeqNCLb8LwDMKCxRNeEBfcUZ5c&s=lb6u
>>> 0SVhJIFnTV7TdqeLiDBfadRxJkAxNEDqOvFqhyQ&e=
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> --
>>> DISCUSS:
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> --
>>>
>>> Thanks for writing this document.
>>>
>>> Section 6.1 says:
>>>
>>> "Developers MAY develop new protocols or applications that rely on IP
>>> fragmentation if the protocol or application is to be run only in
>>> environments where IP fragmentation is known to be supported."
>>>
>>> I'm wondering if there should be a bit more nuance here to make the
>>> recommendation clearer. Do we think there is a case where an
>>> application protocol developed in the IETF will be known to only run
>>> in environments where fragmentation is supported? If we don't think
>>> developing such a protocol would be in scope for the IETF, then I'm
>>> wondering if that case should be called out explicitly with a stronger
>>> normative requirement.
>>>
>> Alissa,
>>
>> Are you distinguishing between protocol development and application
>> development?
>
> I’m specifically wondering about application protocols (as distinct from
> other protocols) developed in the IETF (as distinct from developed
> elsewhere). Sometimes we use BCPs to guide future work in the IETF
> specifically, and it seemed to me that in that specific slice —
> IETF-developed application protocols — we may be able to make a stronger
> recommendation since we can’t be sure of the environment in which any given
> application protocol would be deployed (I think, but would be open to
> arguments otherwise).
fwiw, I agree with what I think Alissa is saying. Unless we actually
*implement* a mechanism to define and support limited domains
(draft-carpenter-limited-domains) protocol designers cannot safely make
assumptions such as "fragmentation works".
Maybe this paragraph needs to be more of a health warning than a somewhat
dubious RFC2119 statement. At least, "should not ... unless" might be a better
formulation than "MAY ... if".
Brian
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