> -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Weinand [mailto:bobw...@hotmail.com] > Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2015 7:51 PM > To: Zeev Suraski > Cc: PHP Internals > Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [INFO] Basic Scalar Types > > > Zeev, > > I'm sure we risk to have no STH at all in PHP 7.0 if I put it into vote now. > Some people will change their vote, not enough people for basic to pass. > Also, I definitely won't support going back and forth with the votes. > If you have issues with dual mode, vote against it. If you like the Basic Types > RFC, vote in favor of it, once it starts. You're all given a chance.
I don't view this as a purely technical vote, and I don't think our community does either. It goes well beyond technology - if we fail to add STH in 7.0, it will be perceived as a major disappointment for the userbase and supposed proof that the project is unable to reach decisions. The plan you propose greatly increases the danger of that, because we have zero visibility into how people would vote. Clearly, a lot of people here disagree with you about the concept of going back & forth on votes. They view it as fair and warranted under the current situation, where we don't have a better way of resolving a conflict between competing RFCs. The availability of the Basic option will affect the vote on Dual Mode, they're not independent. It's not ideal, but that's the mechanism we have for now. > We should have a version of STH we have *consensus* on, not some type of > STH most people dislike, just for the sake of it. Please respect my stance on > that. I agree, except it's not an option with the plan you propose. None of these proposals is going to have consensus, in the accepted sense (an idea or opinion that is shared by all the people in a group, according to Meriam Webster). The Dual Mode STH, if it wins, will still have more 'no' voters than 'yes' votes casted for almost every other RFC. It will be a majority - a special majority - but very far from consensus. I'm also not at all sure that the Basic STH RFC - if you put it to a vote - will win something that's close to consensus. In fact, the only scenario where I see a chance for something that's closer to consensus is if we try to put the Basic out to a vote; On one scenario, we may see that a lot more people prefer Basic to Dual, and do the community a big service. On the other scenario - we'd see that it does nothing but further split the vote, retract it, and unite behind Dual. Whichever direction it takes - our chances of hitting something close to consensus goes significantly higher. > Thus, I deny your request and strongly urge you to *not* fork my RFC. That > would be sabotaging of Anthony's and my RFC. > I won't tolerate that. Anthony welcomed competing RFCs, and in fact proposed it. I don't see how it would be sabotaging your RFC - when in fact it gives it a chance to pass in a case Dual Mode manages to garner. > You had a time to do this RFC, but you did coercive. Correct, as I knew that Basic STH was strictly opposed by a lot of strict campers, and wanted to try to come up with a solution that would cater to both camps' needs. Going with Basic would have been easiest, but I thought it could reach something much closer to consensus - and failed. Reproposing Andrea's v0.1 RFC definitely came to my mind, but I did not recall the language in the Timeline RFC effectively allowing for RFCs to be proposed until the 15th until you brought it up. Does it make sense to you that the community may be barred from voting on this extremely important topic because you proposed it but refuse to put it to a vote? > Now, it's my move with > this RFC and not yours. > > Please accept that and don't play against us. Despite what I said, I am going to think about this hard. Still 3:15 hours of March 15th on this part of the planet. At the same time - I urge you to also think hard about it and reconsider, and put it to a vote as soon as allowed for the reasons mentioned above and in my previous post. Zeev -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
