Mark,

Because we could not clearly define sin6_scope_ID its basically a void
in the base API now.  And IEEE did the same thing.  Works for
link-locals yes.  So if your DNS 2-face reqs that it won't work yet
because of lack of consensus on scoping and no one has implemented a
product for production networks today that use SLs.  I asked Richard to
speak up but until I hear from him I will assume that.

/jim
[Have you ever seen the rain coming down on a sunny day]


> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:Mark.Andrews@;isc.org] 
> Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 7:20 PM
> To: Keith Moore
> Cc: Michel Py; Margaret Wasserman; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Limiting the Use of Site-Local 
> 
> 
> 
> > > In a nutshell, the point you are trying to make is that RFC1918 
> > > addresses are bad because NAT exists.
> > 
> > no, that's missing the point.  use of RFC 1918 addresses in 
> a network 
> > that can also use global Internet addresses is harmful 
> regardless of 
> > whether that connection to the global Internet uses NAT or 
> whether it 
> > is merely via a router that filters traffic to/from the 1918 
> > addresses.
> > 
> > NAT is irrelevant to this particular problem. The problem is that
> > in the presence of either 1918 or SLs applications have to 
> deal with 
> > a mixture of scoped and global addresses without any good 
> way of knowing 
> > whether such an address is valid (and whether it means the 
> same thing) 
> > in the context of a particular node.
> 
>       Which just means that we need to provide a way for the 
> application /
>       library to return appropriate addresses.  Make SL work 
> rather than
>       saying "kill them" or "don't put them in the DNS".
> 
>       I've already said how to put them in the DNS.  It requires a new
>       record but it will work and it will remove the need for 
> two faced
>       DNS unless the sites *wants* to use two faced DNS to 
> hide the records.
> 
>       Site locals provide a solution for a certian problem 
> space.  They
>       do create additional problems but they are not 
> insolvable problems
>       and are no different to the problems causes by LLs.
> 
>       You need a function that looks up names and returns 
> addresses along
>       with the scope_id.  We have that in getaddrinfo().  You need a
>       function that takes a address and a scope_id and 
> returns the name.
>       We don't have that but it is very easy to do that in 
> the DNS if you
>       want to privided you have a scope-id to scope-name 
> function which
>       is need.
> 
>       e.g.
>               <reverse-nibble>.<scope-name>  PTR <name>
>       
>       It's not zero-conf but sites will most probably never 
> be zero-conf.
> 
>       e.g.
> 
> foo.example.net.  SA6 1080:0:0:0:8:800:200C:417A . 
> foo.example.net.  SA6 FE80:0:0:0:8:800:200C:417A 
> my-site.example.net. foo.example.net.  SA6 
> FEC0:0:0:0:8:800:200C:417A my-link.example.net. 
> c.0.0.2.0.0.8.0.8.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.8.0.
> 1.ip6.arpa. (
>       PTR foo.example.net. ) 
> c.0.0.2.0.0.8.0.8.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.8.E.
> F.my-site.example.net. (
>       PTR foo.example.net. ) 
> c.0.0.2.0.0.8.0.8.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.C.E.
> F.my-link.example.net. (
>       PTR foo.example.net. )
> 
>       and you have a local table that maps
>       my-site.example.net and my-link.example.net to 
> appropiate scope-id
>       values.
> 
>       Now if you want to send address between applications in 
> binary format
>       just send SA6 rdata instead of AAAA rdata.
> 
>       Applications / libraries can filter out the addresses that are
>       not useful to them if they want.
> 
>       Mark
> 
> > > 2. site-local is bad because RFC1918 is bad.
> > 
> > sorry - the two are quite similar, and they cause similar 
> problems for 
> > apps.
> > 
> > > >> and a global address.
> > > 
> > > > please, elaborate.  I haven't seen a good one yet.
> > > 
> > > A somehow isolated subnet, where most hosts would have site-local 
> > > only addresses, except for a gateway or proxy that would 
> have both.
> > 
> > that's what 1918 was intended for.  again, I don't have a 
> huge problem 
> > with it as long as the apps don't have to deal with 
> multiple scopes - 
> > but experience with 1918 predicts that that's exactly what will 
> > happen.
> > 
> > > > you're missing the burden that having a mixture of SLs 
> and globals 
> > > > puts on apps.
> > > 
> > > You are missing the point, IMHO. This is not your call nor mine. 
> > > Site-local addresses do exist, been there for long, some 
> people will 
> > > purposedly choose to use them in combination with global 
> addresses. 
> > > As of today, the address selection draft addresses use of 
> site-local 
> > > and global addresses simultaneously and I do not see a reason to 
> > > change it.
> > 
> > IETF's job is to try to explain what will make the network 
> work well.
> > Imposing constraints on the use of SLs will help the 
> network work better.
> > If SLs are encouraged as in the current draft it will 
> degrade the ability 
> > of the network to support applications.  
> > 
> > Keith
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> Mark Andrews, Internet Software Consortium
> 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
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