Erik Nordmark writes:
> I don't think stable addresses per se is the key
> thing - it is the robustness of the communication
> that is important.

I agree with this.  However, the minimal degree of robustness is working
at all - something which requires some address of some sort.  There
needs to be a way to get an address when you don't have a provider.
This means either scoped addresses as we have defined them already (and
in multi-link locations, this means either site-local or multi-link
subnet routers and link-local), or some sort of provider-independent
address (note there are various types of these as well, depending upon
whether we believe they should be explicity non-routable, or privately
routable between multiple non-connected 'sites').

> This robustness has at least two factors that are
> relevant in this discussion: the stability of the
> addresses, and the leakage of non-global scope
> addresses. I think the question is how to 
> weigh those together.

Regarding leakage of non-global scope addresses, I don't see this as a
major problem given the way our current scoped addresses are defined.
Having an explicit prefix makes it straight-forward for border routers
to filter them.  The scope-id in the sockaddr field makes it easy for
applications to know on which interfaces an address is usable and to
whom it is legit to pass (something that isn't true for the 169.254.x.x
"link-local" addresses in v4 today).  I'd be more worried about leakage
of provider-independent addresses which don't share an explicitly
non-routable prefix.

> In any case, for a home user I suspect that the 
> value/importance of local communication would
> typically be less than the value/importance of
> global communication.

As I mentioned in my last message on this topic, I believe a lot of the
argument around site-locals is really about expected usage models.
Personally, I would expect the opposite of what you say above.  Home
users watching a movie on their IPv6-enabled television screen in the
living room (which is streaming in from the media server in their
basement) won't be happy if their movie quits because their kid just
dialed into the Internet and the  resulting global address advertisment
required all site-local communication to stop.

More generally, I don't want IPv6 to be just for the Internet.  If we've
done it right, IPv6 will be used for all sorts of communication between
lots of devices which typically don't have network connectivity today.
I'm worried that this working group too often sees things in terms of
only traditional computers as the hosts, and the routers all belonging
to organizations which have administrators to run them.  We shouldn't
try to dumb down IPv6 so that it only works well in the environment IPv4
was conceived in.

> Finally, an enemy to robustness is complexity.
> Site-locals add complexity in many places;
> applications, two-faced DNS configuration, etc.

Yes, needless complexity is bad.  But site-locals don't add any
significant complexity to applications (which I think I've demonstated
enough in too many emails already).  Many existing IPv4-only sites run
two-faced DNS today, so there clearly are people out there who think it
is worth it for reasons that have nothing to do with IPv6.  If we think
that's not optimal, we should be thinking about figuring out why they
run their IPv4 networks that way today and come up with a better
solution for them using IPv6.

> So let's not loose sight of the fact that the
> goal is a robust network.

Sure.  And scoped addresses have the potential to make the network more
robust (I'd say that link-locals have already proved their worth in this
regard).

--Brian

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