On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 2:54 PM, Bernd Fondermann <[email protected]> wrote: > On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 13:28, Mohammad Nour El-Din > <[email protected]> wrote: >> Hi Bernd... >> >> Although the "Skype call worries" thing has taken a lot of time >> discussing only _some_fears_ of_things_that_might_happen_, but your >> comments showed that you didn't understand what the call was about >> _at_all_, please read my comments below: > > I can only judge from what I read from the post, thanks for clearing things > up. > >> On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 1:47 PM, Bernd Fondermann >> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> As I said on the incubator-general list, I think having conference >>> calls for incubating projects or Apache projects in general is not an >>> overwhelmingly good idea. More details inline. >> Totally disagree with you, take for example IRC is one real-time >> communication tool that has been so useful, not only for committers >> but also for users and other people interested in digging into more >> details about something and when they need it fast, this happens a lot >> in OpenEJB, and guess what users really appreciate that a lot, >> actually we gained one more committer because of this and he has been >> so active since. > > I don't think IRC is helpful at all, and I detest reading IRC logs, > but in general I don't disagree with you. > I specifically commented on skype and I am aware of the fact that > others think it's helpful - now that's where I think they are wrong. > >>> >>> On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 00:15, Dan Haywood <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> Somewhat belatedly, just capturing a few notes from the skype conf call >>>> that >>>> took place last Thu (crikey ... a week ago!) >>>> >>> <snip/> >>>> >>>> We then went around the "table" and introduced ourselves. Sorry, I didn't >>>> take detailed notes, but my impression (and from following mails on >>>> isis-dev) was that this was really worthwhile, and helped the community >>>> feel >>>> like, well, a community. >>> >>> Except that for those not on the call, we now feel like not being part >>> of the community. >>> The community is here on-list and includes those lurkers and users not >>> actively participating. At open source projects, committers typically >>> represent less than 10% of the community, as you can derive from >>> mailing list subscriber numbers. >> _not_true_, again the call was announced on isis-dev@ and there has >> been a vote for the best time that suits all of us, and again guess >> what all of the members involved in the project attended the call and >> even more, 2 new interested members attended also and they all enjoyed >> the call very much and they had a boost in the project which helped >> them get into the same picture as the rest of the team almost in no >> time. And tell you what, opensource is about doing the best you can to >> the project you love, take for example OpenEJB most of the time I have >> to wake up till 4 or 5 or even 6am so I can catch with other >> OpenEJBers living in USA, w/ no complain cause this is the way chose >> and this is what I love to offer to the project I love, opensource is >> about passion to join what you really find yourself in, it is not a >> job, and people when they join such projects with people working in >> different time zones, they know in advance that there will be >> sometimes they will miss a meeting or two as long as they can catch >> that later through an e-mail sent to brief the call or issues >> discussed are detailed on the Wiki, which happened in our case. > > What are you trying to say here? You're pointing out the disadvantages > of how OpenEJB deals with working together and you personally chose to > live with them - while others won't. That's the committers in OpenEJB > you won't ever get on board. You missed my point here, what I am saying is it happens that people miss something here or there even if it is mentioned on the ML, it also happens in companies where different people working in different time zones, some of these people would have to catch call every once and a while which can be too early or too late, and they do it because of business needs, but here it is done with delight cause they like what they do. Also the call is gonna be once/month and hence people will have much of be prepared for it and the time and date will be known in advance and also voted on, again they will do it with delight cause they like what they do, that is what I tried to explain :). > >>>> I then did a screenshare to the call, and did a run-through of the key >>>> elements of the architecture: core, defaults, alternatives, viewer; and >>>> referencing JSR-299 for the terminology of "defaults" and "alternatives" >>>> (we're hoping to refactor towards JSR-299 during incubation). >>> >>> Wow, this seems to be pretty important stuff for anyone interested in >>> the project. Where can I find that information? In the ML archives? On >>> the website? (Sorry, I'm new to the project.) >> Yes it is on the mailing list, and it seems you didn't give it >> sometime to read the mailing list at all, or even better, as having >> the opensource spirit, you could have replied to that e-mail asking >> Dan or anyone of us sending what ever info you missed and all of us >> would be more than delighted to help and get you into the picture with >> us, but seems again you are only trying the easy way complaining which >> is not open-source nor Apache spirit at all. > > That's exactly what I did - asking for a place to find the info. > What's wrong with that? > I can't see me complaining in this specific quote- > >>Again I will take OpenEJB >> as an example, most if not all of the information are in mailing lists >> or on the Wiki, but sometimes people are new to Apache and they get >> lost where to find what they want, but instead of complaining they ask >> for help and help they have with delight from every and each member of >> OpenEJB. >>> >>>>I also >>>> described the different builds supported: mvn clean install and mvn >>>> site-deploy, x-refing the wiki for details. >>>> >>>> We also talking briefly about the fact that we'll need to decide on a v0.1 >>>> release, what's to go into it, and when to aim for. I promised to put some >>>> posts on the ML about this (which I've still to do). >>> >>> Releasing is a pretty important aspect for any project. Time would >>> have been spent much better posting to the ML directly instead of >>> discussing it on skype and then waiting a week until posting. >> Again _wrong_, what we discussed in the call is just that we raised >> the issue, we didn't get into details, which took Dan to collect such >> details and then discuss it _on_the_mailing_list_publicly_ cause such >> details can't live in calls only, which is one regulation we >> understand and respect and follow. > > The statement I was referring to could have been read otherwise. But > you have now clarified that, thanks. > >>> As was emphasized elsewhere, off-list communication is not forbidden >>> and it will happen - as a matter of fact. I just want to point out its >>> disadvantages. >> Sorry Bernd, with all the respect I have to you, I disagree with you >> about the "pointing out" this, it can't be this way, also IMHO it >> should be through mentors of this project which is an educational >> point in itself so new people to Apache can understand how things are >> going. > > No. The PMC is tasked with bringing the podling into the foundation, > not the mentors. The mentors are just a means to ensure there are > enough eyeballs for every podling. > Everybody is free to publicly state his point of view. Thanks for > tolerating that, even if you disagree. > >> I am sorry if the tone of the e-mail might seem defensive but, the >> issue could be handled in much simpler way than all that talking >> happened. > > How? Shutting up? No but you could ask mentors to do that as they already know what is going on in Isis :). > > Bernd >
-- Thanks - Mohammad Nour Author of (WebSphere Application Server Community Edition 2.0 User Guide) http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/abstracts/sg247585.html - LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mnour - Blog: http://tadabborat.blogspot.com ---- "Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving" - Albert Einstein "Writing clean code is what you must do in order to call yourself a professional. There is no reasonable excuse for doing anything less than your best." - Clean Code: A Handbook of Agile Software Craftsmanship "Stay hungry, stay foolish." - Steve Jobs
