ISP-DSL Digest for Wednesday, August 02, 2000.
1. RE: Voice Coop for ISPs
2. Re: Voice Coop for ISPs
3. RE: Voice Coop for ISPs
4. Re: Voice Coop for ISPs
5. RE: Voice Coop for ISPs
6. RE: Voice Coop for ISPs
7. RE: Voice Coop for ISPs
8. RE: Voice Coop for ISPs
9. Re: Voice Coop for ISPs
10. RE: Voice Coop for ISPs
11. FW: Message rejected
12. Re: Voice Coop for ISPs
13. VoDSL Coop
14. FW: Message rejected
15. Need DSL advise
16. VoDSL Coop
17. RE: Voice Coop for ISPs
18. RE: Voice Coop for ISPs
19. RE: Voice Coop for ISPs
20. RE: Voice Coop for ISPs
21. rural broadband, was-Re: Voice Coop for ISPs
22. Re: aggregating DSL and Cable signals
23. Re: aggregating DSL and Cable signals
24. RE: rural broadband, was-Re: Voice Coop for ISPs
25. RE: aggregating DSL and Cable signals
26. RE: aggregating DSL and Cable signals
27. Re: aggregating DSL and Cable signals
28. RE: Voice Coop for ISPs
29. NEBS cross connect panels
30. RE: Backhauling from Orlando to Tampa pop
31. Re: New Edge
32. Re: Voice Coop for ISPs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: Voice Coop for ISPs
From: "William Devine, II" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 00:21:23 -0500
X-Message-Number: 1
Marlon/Darrell,
The best example is happening with Sprint and their SprintION system. I
just signed up with them to replace my four phone lines at my home office
(that I pay around $275-$300/month for, including about 700-800 minutes long
distance/month.) For a flat rate of $160 (residential locations only) you
get 4 phone lines, caller ID (name/number), voicemail, call forwarding, call
forwarding busy, call forwarding RNA (ring no answer), call waiting, three
way calling,..all services on all lines INCLUDING 750 minutes of long
distance shared among the lines. Plus anywhere from 8Megs down / 1.5Megs up
to 1.5Megs down / 384K up (depending on distance, I'm going to be hitting
the lower end at 10k-12k feet from the CO.)
This is a PERFECT example of what Darrell is talking about. EXCEPT it's
saving money on the residential side. Even without using the ADSL service
(I currently use Road Runner and consistently at 1.9Megabit/s downloads and
1.2Meg/s uploads almost 24x7 in my area) I'm still saving $100-$150/month
JUST on my phone lines. If the ISP service is dependable I'll switch over
to it (two static IP#'s, not dynamic) and save another $45/month.
This is in the Houston area. The install takes from 30-45 days, costs $250
for the SprintION 'gateway' which is controlled by software on your computer
to set voicemail stuff, call routing (line A rings to line 1, line B rings
to line 3, line 4 rings to line 2, etc), call forwarding and routing, and
all the fun stuff. They'll waive the $150 install charge and the $250
hardware cost for a 24 month committment (which I did of course) and only
penalize you the $250 if you cancel before 24 months.
If they're going after the residential market this bad, just wait until
they aim for the business market where they'll sell more than 4 lines per
location. Southwestern Bell better watch out.
William
-----Original Message-----
From: Darrell Hale [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 1:31 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Voice Coop for ISPs
Perhaps you don't understand completely. With Voice over DSL, you can get
an extra 8 lines out of a DSL line easily and cost effectively.
As an ISP, you can offer a package of Voice, Data, and Long Distance that is
35-50% under what Bell charges for the same service.
Now if you can't tell me that you couldn't sell 8 phone lines at $25 a piece
(business lines I might add) and long distance for 5 cents a minute with no
minimum charge coupled with data for around $300-400 depending on the LD
bill then I don't know what is wrong. Bell is charging $560 minimum for the
same services around Dallas... I know because I shopped them.
You use one DSL line as a integrated service like you might have done with a
T1 just a few years back. CPE's to support this type of service are around
$700... a modest price considering that is a full router and DSL Modem or T1
CSU/DSU.
Darrell
-----Original Message-----
From: Marlon K. Schafer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 4:35 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Voice Coop for ISPs
Very very very few out here could justify anywhere near $500 extra per month
just for long distance.
I'd love to offer voice over my wireless and dsl systems but people out here
are paying only $35/month for high speed connections. I'm not going to be
able to get much more out of them.
Marlon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darrell Hale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 6:26 PM
Subject: Voice Coop for ISPs
>
> For all of those ISPs out there that want to do voice services my company
is
> starting up a voice coop of sorts with various CLECs around the country
that
> have existing GR-303 capable switches. As well, in conjunction with other
> small switch companies such as Taqua and Network Telco, we can provide
> end-to-end advice on how to equip a small CLEC for voice services.
Probably
> the first instance of this will be in South Central and South East. How
> many ISPs out there would be interested in joining into an effot to get an
> additional $300-500 revenue a month per DSL line to the small business
> customer?
>
> This is an interest poll as well as any technical or business questions
you
> might have about how to do Voice over DSL.
>
> Darrell
>
> P.S. Those who use Bell... there might be problems... those who use
> Northpoint, Covad, Rhythmns, New Edge etc. will have better luck adding
> voice.
______________ • The ISP-DSL Discussion List • ______________
To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/
^^^^ http://www.genuity.com/dmail/ispoffers/e33.htm ^^^^^
At Genuity, formerly GTE Internetworking and BBN, we give
ISP's Tier 1 access through two innovative services
Click the above link to learn more and get free research.
______________ • The ISP-DSL Discussion List • ______________
To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Voice Coop for ISPs
From: Steve McCrann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 02:20:31 -0500
X-Message-Number: 2
Darrell,
this sounds interesting of course to providers always looking to ad more
services and $$ to their service lines but I have the following questions.
Since this technology is somewhat new can this equipment compilation deliver
five nines of uptime as dialtone does?
Will tariffs have to be filed in each state for the $25 business lines and other
services?
Will this organization or each selling organization need the CLEC licensing from
each state and how much $$ is that?
Does this equipment handle caller ID, forwarding, messaging services, etc.?
911 system interfaces?
Wouldn't you say that those that have colo DSLAMs in traditional central offices
would be the way to do this, if you use Covad etc you are running over what is
quite possibly a highly oversubscribed network that would be bypassed if the
voice services were cut out at the CO and not going through the backhaul portion
to get to the ISP? Would you be offering voice services through a Redback or
router at the ISP location?
thanks, I know- a million questions but this sounds interesting, are you
proposing this as some sort of wholesale CLEC that uses ISPs and some of their
networks for providing services? Who is your company and is there any
documentation of the offerings on your web pages?
Steve
Darrell Hale wrote:
> Perhaps you don't understand completely. With Voice over DSL, you can get
> an extra 8 lines out of a DSL line easily and cost effectively.
>
> As an ISP, you can offer a package of Voice, Data, and Long Distance that is
> 35-50% under what Bell charges for the same service.
>
> Now if you can't tell me that you couldn't sell 8 phone lines at $25 a piece
> (business lines I might add) and long distance for 5 cents a minute with no
> minimum charge coupled with data for around $300-400 depending on the LD
> bill then I don't know what is wrong. Bell is charging $560 minimum for the
> same services around Dallas... I know because I shopped them.
>
> You use one DSL line as a integrated service like you might have done with a
> T1 just a few years back. CPE's to support this type of service are around
> $700... a modest price considering that is a full router and DSL Modem or T1
> CSU/DSU.
>
> Darrell
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marlon K. Schafer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 4:35 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Voice Coop for ISPs
>
> Very very very few out here could justify anywhere near $500 extra per month
> just for long distance.
>
> I'd love to offer voice over my wireless and dsl systems but people out here
> are paying only $35/month for high speed connections. I'm not going to be
> able to get much more out of them.
>
> Marlon
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Darrell Hale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 6:26 PM
> Subject: Voice Coop for ISPs
>
> >
> > For all of those ISPs out there that want to do voice services my company
> is
> > starting up a voice coop of sorts with various CLECs around the country
> that
> > have existing GR-303 capable switches. As well, in conjunction with other
> > small switch companies such as Taqua and Network Telco, we can provide
> > end-to-end advice on how to equip a small CLEC for voice services.
> Probably
> > the first instance of this will be in South Central and South East. How
> > many ISPs out there would be interested in joining into an effot to get an
> > additional $300-500 revenue a month per DSL line to the small business
> > customer?
> >
> > This is an interest poll as well as any technical or business questions
> you
> > might have about how to do Voice over DSL.
> >
> > Darrell
> >
> > P.S. Those who use Bell... there might be problems... those who use
> > Northpoint, Covad, Rhythmns, New Edge etc. will have better luck adding
> > voice.
>
> ______________ • The ISP-DSL Discussion List • ______________
> To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/
>
> ^^^^ http://www.genuity.com/dmail/ispoffers/e33.htm ^^^^^
> At Genuity, formerly GTE Internetworking and BBN, we give
> ISP's Tier 1 access through two innovative services
> Click the above link to learn more and get free research.
>
> ______________ • The ISP-DSL Discussion List • ______________
> To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: Voice Coop for ISPs
From: "Maier, Eric A, NNAD" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 09:33:35 -0400
X-Message-Number: 3
Eric Maier
AT&T Shannon Labs
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve McCrann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 3:21 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Voice Coop for ISPs
Darrell,
this sounds interesting of course to providers always looking to ad more
services and $$ to their service lines but I have the following questions.
Since this technology is somewhat new can this equipment compilation deliver
five nines of uptime as dialtone does?
#Yes it can but QOS(VBR-RT)is a necessity.
Will tariffs have to be filed in each state for the $25 business lines and
other
services? Depends on how the service is offered. If through another CLEC or
ILEC and its their service offering and you
are only providing transport then I would think not. However, I am no expert
in these matters.
Will this organization or each selling organization need the CLEC licensing
from
each state and how much $$ is that?
Does this equipment handle caller ID, forwarding, messaging services, etc.?
911 system interfaces?
# Yes, All services that a Class 5 switch offers. However, The verification
for this is not for the faint of heart.
Wouldn't you say that those that have colo DSLAMs in traditional central
offices
would be the way to do this, if you use Covad etc you are running over what
is
quite possibly a highly oversubscribed network that would be bypassed if the
voice services were cut out at the CO and not going through the backhaul
portion
to get to the ISP? Would you be offering voice services through a Redback
or
router at the ISP location?
You
thanks, I know- a million questions but this sounds interesting, are you
proposing this as some sort of wholesale CLEC that uses ISPs and some of
their
networks for providing services? Who is your company and is there any
documentation of the offerings on your web pages?
Steve
Darrell Hale wrote:
> Perhaps you don't understand completely. With Voice over DSL, you can get
> an extra 8 lines out of a DSL line easily and cost effectively.
>
> As an ISP, you can offer a package of Voice, Data, and Long Distance that
is
> 35-50% under what Bell charges for the same service.
>
> Now if you can't tell me that you couldn't sell 8 phone lines at $25 a
piece
> (business lines I might add) and long distance for 5 cents a minute with
no
> minimum charge coupled with data for around $300-400 depending on the LD
> bill then I don't know what is wrong. Bell is charging $560 minimum for
the
> same services around Dallas... I know because I shopped them.
>
> You use one DSL line as a integrated service like you might have done with
a
> T1 just a few years back. CPE's to support this type of service are
around
> $700... a modest price considering that is a full router and DSL Modem or
T1
> CSU/DSU.
>
> Darrell
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marlon K. Schafer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 4:35 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Voice Coop for ISPs
>
> Very very very few out here could justify anywhere near $500 extra per
month
> just for long distance.
>
> I'd love to offer voice over my wireless and dsl systems but people out
here
> are paying only $35/month for high speed connections. I'm not going to be
> able to get much more out of them.
>
> Marlon
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Darrell Hale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 6:26 PM
> Subject: Voice Coop for ISPs
>
> >
> > For all of those ISPs out there that want to do voice services my
company
> is
> > starting up a voice coop of sorts with various CLECs around the country
> that
> > have existing GR-303 capable switches. As well, in conjunction with
other
> > small switch companies such as Taqua and Network Telco, we can provide
> > end-to-end advice on how to equip a small CLEC for voice services.
> Probably
> > the first instance of this will be in South Central and South East. How
> > many ISPs out there would be interested in joining into an effot to get
an
> > additional $300-500 revenue a month per DSL line to the small business
> > customer?
> >
> > This is an interest poll as well as any technical or business questions
> you
> > might have about how to do Voice over DSL.
> >
> > Darrell
> >
> > P.S. Those who use Bell... there might be problems... those who use
> > Northpoint, Covad, Rhythmns, New Edge etc. will have better luck adding
> > voice.
>
> ______________ * The ISP-DSL Discussion List * ______________
> To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/
>
> ^^^^ http://www.genuity.com/dmail/ispoffers/e33.htm ^^^^^
> At Genuity, formerly GTE Internetworking and BBN, we give
> ISP's Tier 1 access through two innovative services
> Click the above link to learn more and get free research.
>
> ______________ * The ISP-DSL Discussion List * ______________
> To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/
^^^^ http://www.genuity.com/dmail/ispoffers/e33.htm ^^^^^
At Genuity, formerly GTE Internetworking and BBN, we give
ISP's Tier 1 access through two innovative services
Click the above link to learn more and get free research.
______________ * The ISP-DSL Discussion List * ______________
To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Voice Coop for ISPs
From: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 07:05:42 -0700
X-Message-Number: 4
What's wrong is that I'm in a small market. Only 1000 (not a typo) in my
whole local calling area. There are only 4 t-1's in the whole town (mine,
the other isp, the hospital, and the school) and two of them are paid for
with grants that specifically preclude them purchasing from anyone but the
telco.
I resell my t-1 via my wireless distribution system for $35/month. Find a
way for me to integrate your system into mine for an extra $10 (residential)
to $30 (business) and I think it would work for me. Would work much better
for many for that matter.....
marlon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darrell Hale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 11:31 PM
Subject: RE: Voice Coop for ISPs
>
> Perhaps you don't understand completely. With Voice over DSL, you can get
> an extra 8 lines out of a DSL line easily and cost effectively.
>
> As an ISP, you can offer a package of Voice, Data, and Long Distance that
is
> 35-50% under what Bell charges for the same service.
>
> Now if you can't tell me that you couldn't sell 8 phone lines at $25 a
piece
> (business lines I might add) and long distance for 5 cents a minute with
no
> minimum charge coupled with data for around $300-400 depending on the LD
> bill then I don't know what is wrong. Bell is charging $560 minimum for
the
> same services around Dallas... I know because I shopped them.
>
> You use one DSL line as a integrated service like you might have done with
a
> T1 just a few years back. CPE's to support this type of service are
around
> $700... a modest price considering that is a full router and DSL Modem or
T1
> CSU/DSU.
>
> Darrell
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marlon K. Schafer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 4:35 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Voice Coop for ISPs
>
>
> Very very very few out here could justify anywhere near $500 extra per
month
> just for long distance.
>
> I'd love to offer voice over my wireless and dsl systems but people out
here
> are paying only $35/month for high speed connections. I'm not going to be
> able to get much more out of them.
>
> Marlon
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Darrell Hale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 6:26 PM
> Subject: Voice Coop for ISPs
>
>
> >
> > For all of those ISPs out there that want to do voice services my
company
> is
> > starting up a voice coop of sorts with various CLECs around the country
> that
> > have existing GR-303 capable switches. As well, in conjunction with
other
> > small switch companies such as Taqua and Network Telco, we can provide
> > end-to-end advice on how to equip a small CLEC for voice services.
> Probably
> > the first instance of this will be in South Central and South East. How
> > many ISPs out there would be interested in joining into an effot to get
an
> > additional $300-500 revenue a month per DSL line to the small business
> > customer?
> >
> > This is an interest poll as well as any technical or business questions
> you
> > might have about how to do Voice over DSL.
> >
> > Darrell
> >
> > P.S. Those who use Bell... there might be problems... those who use
> > Northpoint, Covad, Rhythmns, New Edge etc. will have better luck adding
> > voice.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: Voice Coop for ISPs
From: "Darrell Hale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 09:20:37 -0700
X-Message-Number: 5
Great example... thanks. Another example would be what one of our
customers, MPower is doing on the consolodated broadband offering they have.
Without getting too detailed, check it out at
http://208.224.119.171/product/cbss2_lvs.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: William Devine, II [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 10:21 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Voice Coop for ISPs
Marlon/Darrell,
The best example is happening with Sprint and their SprintION system. I
just signed up with them to replace my four phone lines at my home office
(that I pay around $275-$300/month for, including about 700-800 minutes long
distance/month.) For a flat rate of $160 (residential locations only) you
get 4 phone lines, caller ID (name/number), voicemail, call forwarding, call
forwarding busy, call forwarding RNA (ring no answer), call waiting, three
way calling,..all services on all lines INCLUDING 750 minutes of long
distance shared among the lines. Plus anywhere from 8Megs down / 1.5Megs up
to 1.5Megs down / 384K up (depending on distance, I'm going to be hitting
the lower end at 10k-12k feet from the CO.)
This is a PERFECT example of what Darrell is talking about. EXCEPT it's
saving money on the residential side. Even without using the ADSL service
(I currently use Road Runner and consistently at 1.9Megabit/s downloads and
1.2Meg/s uploads almost 24x7 in my area) I'm still saving $100-$150/month
JUST on my phone lines. If the ISP service is dependable I'll switch over
to it (two static IP#'s, not dynamic) and save another $45/month.
This is in the Houston area. The install takes from 30-45 days, costs $250
for the SprintION 'gateway' which is controlled by software on your computer
to set voicemail stuff, call routing (line A rings to line 1, line B rings
to line 3, line 4 rings to line 2, etc), call forwarding and routing, and
all the fun stuff. They'll waive the $150 install charge and the $250
hardware cost for a 24 month committment (which I did of course) and only
penalize you the $250 if you cancel before 24 months.
If they're going after the residential market this bad, just wait until
they aim for the business market where they'll sell more than 4 lines per
location. Southwestern Bell better watch out.
William
-----Original Message-----
From: Darrell Hale [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 1:31 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Voice Coop for ISPs
Perhaps you don't understand completely. With Voice over DSL, you can get
an extra 8 lines out of a DSL line easily and cost effectively.
As an ISP, you can offer a package of Voice, Data, and Long Distance that is
35-50% under what Bell charges for the same service.
Now if you can't tell me that you couldn't sell 8 phone lines at $25 a piece
(business lines I might add) and long distance for 5 cents a minute with no
minimum charge coupled with data for around $300-400 depending on the LD
bill then I don't know what is wrong. Bell is charging $560 minimum for the
same services around Dallas... I know because I shopped them.
You use one DSL line as a integrated service like you might have done with a
T1 just a few years back. CPE's to support this type of service are around
$700... a modest price considering that is a full router and DSL Modem or T1
CSU/DSU.
Darrell
-----Original Message-----
From: Marlon K. Schafer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 4:35 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Voice Coop for ISPs
Very very very few out here could justify anywhere near $500 extra per month
just for long distance.
I'd love to offer voice over my wireless and dsl systems but people out here
are paying only $35/month for high speed connections. I'm not going to be
able to get much more out of them.
Marlon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darrell Hale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 6:26 PM
Subject: Voice Coop for ISPs
>
> For all of those ISPs out there that want to do voice services my company
is
> starting up a voice coop of sorts with various CLECs around the country
that
> have existing GR-303 capable switches. As well, in conjunction with other
> small switch companies such as Taqua and Network Telco, we can provide
> end-to-end advice on how to equip a small CLEC for voice services.
Probably
> the first instance of this will be in South Central and South East. How
> many ISPs out there would be interested in joining into an effot to get an
> additional $300-500 revenue a month per DSL line to the small business
> customer?
>
> This is an interest poll as well as any technical or business questions
you
> might have about how to do Voice over DSL.
>
> Darrell
>
> P.S. Those who use Bell... there might be problems... those who use
> Northpoint, Covad, Rhythmns, New Edge etc. will have better luck adding
> voice.
______________ • The ISP-DSL Discussion List • ______________
To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/
^^^^ http://www.genuity.com/dmail/ispoffers/e33.htm ^^^^^
At Genuity, formerly GTE Internetworking and BBN, we give
ISP's Tier 1 access through two innovative services
Click the above link to learn more and get free research.
______________ • The ISP-DSL Discussion List • ______________
To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/
^^^^ http://www.genuity.com/dmail/ispoffers/e33.htm ^^^^^
At Genuity, formerly GTE Internetworking and BBN, we give
ISP's Tier 1 access through two innovative services
Click the above link to learn more and get free research.
______________ • The ISP-DSL Discussion List • ______________
To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: Voice Coop for ISPs
From: "Darrell Hale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 09:33:47 -0700
X-Message-Number: 6
I have inserted some answers below.
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve McCrann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 12:21 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Voice Coop for ISPs
Darrell,
this sounds interesting of course to providers always looking to ad more
services and $$ to their service lines but I have the following questions.
Since this technology is somewhat new can this equipment compilation deliver
five nines of uptime as dialtone does?
Our field data for 300,000 DS0's of Gateways in revenue generation shows
99.9985 of uptime. Expect to go to 5 nines on the next software release.
Will tariffs have to be filed in each state for the $25 business lines and
other
services?
Possibly. Depends on state to state but the reseller wouldn't have to worry
about this as the wholesaling CLEC would help them walk through the process.
Will this organization or each selling organization need the CLEC licensing
from
each state and how much $$ is that?
The wholesaling CLEC would charge an amount for the T1 GR-303's and the LD
being sold by the enabled ISP/CLEC.
Does this equipment handle caller ID, forwarding, messaging services, etc.?
911 system interfaces?
The equipment has 99.999% ubiquity of current features. The only thing that
doesn't work is P-phone and we have a solution through http://www.bizfon.com
Bizfon that takes care of that. What is nice is that our IAD has an
ethernet uplink and can be added onto existing deployments of data services
such as DSL, Frame Relay routers, etc.
Wouldn't you say that those that have colo DSLAMs in traditional central
offices
would be the way to do this, if you use Covad etc you are running over what
is
quite possibly a highly oversubscribed network that would be bypassed if the
voice services were cut out at the CO and not going through the backhaul
portion
to get to the ISP?
We don't have to worry about oversubscribtion and contention as the
technology behind the DSL Forum's BLES document covers that eventuality.
The voice gets priority over the data and the data gets shaped to allow the
voice to have 100% of the bandwidth it needs. The ISP itself may not ever
have to touch the voice stream of IP going out. The CLEC could terminate
GR-303 traffic into a NEBS compliant gateway at the CO where the link-up is
with Covad etc. The ISP would only have to worry about provisioning CPE and
the assignment of CRVs (call reference values or phone numbers) from the
interface group out to the customer premise.
Would you be offering voice services through a Redback or
router at the ISP location?
No... probably wouldn't touch the redback. It could though if the VC's
across ATM network was too choked up. We can aggregate IP voice with a
redback but not AAL2 ATM voice.
thanks, I know- a million questions but this sounds interesting, are you
proposing this as some sort of wholesale CLEC that uses ISPs and some of
their
networks for providing services? Who is your company and is there any
documentation of the offerings on your web pages?
Exactly... wholesale CLECs partner with ISPs and vice verca.
Tollbridge is the company at http://www.tollbridgetech.com
You won't find anything about this on the web page yet but you will find
customers that we have and the technology. This Coop / Consortium is still
in process of being linked up. We have some commitments from the SE and
Texas but not yet from the North and the West... that will come though.
Steve
Darrell Hale wrote:
> Perhaps you don't understand completely. With Voice over DSL, you can get
> an extra 8 lines out of a DSL line easily and cost effectively.
>
> As an ISP, you can offer a package of Voice, Data, and Long Distance that
is
> 35-50% under what Bell charges for the same service.
>
> Now if you can't tell me that you couldn't sell 8 phone lines at $25 a
piece
> (business lines I might add) and long distance for 5 cents a minute with
no
> minimum charge coupled with data for around $300-400 depending on the LD
> bill then I don't know what is wrong. Bell is charging $560 minimum for
the
> same services around Dallas... I know because I shopped them.
>
> You use one DSL line as a integrated service like you might have done with
a
> T1 just a few years back. CPE's to support this type of service are
around
> $700... a modest price considering that is a full router and DSL Modem or
T1
> CSU/DSU.
>
> Darrell
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marlon K. Schafer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 4:35 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Voice Coop for ISPs
>
> Very very very few out here could justify anywhere near $500 extra per
month
> just for long distance.
>
> I'd love to offer voice over my wireless and dsl systems but people out
here
> are paying only $35/month for high speed connections. I'm not going to be
> able to get much more out of them.
>
> Marlon
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Darrell Hale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 6:26 PM
> Subject: Voice Coop for ISPs
>
> >
> > For all of those ISPs out there that want to do voice services my
company
> is
> > starting up a voice coop of sorts with various CLECs around the country
> that
> > have existing GR-303 capable switches. As well, in conjunction with
other
> > small switch companies such as Taqua and Network Telco, we can provide
> > end-to-end advice on how to equip a small CLEC for voice services.
> Probably
> > the first instance of this will be in South Central and South East. How
> > many ISPs out there would be interested in joining into an effot to get
an
> > additional $300-500 revenue a month per DSL line to the small business
> > customer?
> >
> > This is an interest poll as well as any technical or business questions
> you
> > might have about how to do Voice over DSL.
> >
> > Darrell
> >
> > P.S. Those who use Bell... there might be problems... those who use
> > Northpoint, Covad, Rhythmns, New Edge etc. will have better luck adding
> > voice.
>
> ______________ • The ISP-DSL Discussion List • ______________
> To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/
>
> ^^^^ http://www.genuity.com/dmail/ispoffers/e33.htm ^^^^^
> At Genuity, formerly GTE Internetworking and BBN, we give
> ISP's Tier 1 access through two innovative services
> Click the above link to learn more and get free research.
>
> ______________ • The ISP-DSL Discussion List • ______________
> To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/
^^^^ http://www.genuity.com/dmail/ispoffers/e33.htm ^^^^^
At Genuity, formerly GTE Internetworking and BBN, we give
ISP's Tier 1 access through two innovative services
Click the above link to learn more and get free research.
______________ • The ISP-DSL Discussion List • ______________
To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: Voice Coop for ISPs
From: "Darrell Hale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 09:38:31 -0700
X-Message-Number: 7
QoS can be determined by two methods. One is IP and the other is ATM. It
is interesting that you say Covad and Northpoint because both of them can
enable one type of the service.
IP QoS utilizes the Type Of Service header or TOS in an IP packet and the
Copper Mt. DSLAM's Northpoint uses are capable of IP-IQ software that does
this distinction. If it goes from the DSLAM back to the core then it would
have to do an FR-ATM interworking function. At that point, it can get
passed off to a ATM VC that is designated higher priority or value by giving
it VBR-rt, nrt, UBR, UBR+... whatever as long as the voice gets treated
better. The ATM method just extends two VC's down to the customer premise
box / modem / IAD and the voice goes through the ATM network its own path
and priority back to the gateway.
Darrell
-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Herschlag [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 9:36 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Voice Coop for ISPs
Of course we are interested in VoDSL and see precisely the opportunity you
have outlined. And I am particularly interested to see what a co-op can do
to help move the situation along. As I see it now, we are dependent as Covad
and Northpoint resellers on what deals they make with CLECs for VoDSL, being
that they control their own DSLAMs. Of course, we can, in each metro area,
that we interconnect with such DSL carriers, split out the voice at the
point of interconnection with the carrier and hand that off to a CLEC, but
at that point the voice packets have traversed the carriers local network,
which is oversold in many cases and would likely result in inadequate QOS
for business-grade voice service. So what do we do about this situation?
What are Covad and Northpoint's current plans?
Daniel Herschlag
Chief Executive
Intercom Online
212 376 7440
www.intercom.com
www.mydsl.com
www.getyourdotcoms.com
|-----Original Message-----
|From: Darrell Hale [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
|Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 2:31 AM
|To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
|Subject: RE: Voice Coop for ISPs
|
|
|
|Perhaps you don't understand completely. With Voice over DSL, you can get
|an extra 8 lines out of a DSL line easily and cost effectively.
|
|As an ISP, you can offer a package of Voice, Data, and Long
|Distance that is
|35-50% under what Bell charges for the same service.
|
|Now if you can't tell me that you couldn't sell 8 phone lines at
|$25 a piece
|(business lines I might add) and long distance for 5 cents a minute with no
|minimum charge coupled with data for around $300-400 depending on the LD
|bill then I don't know what is wrong. Bell is charging $560
|minimum for the
|same services around Dallas... I know because I shopped them.
|
|You use one DSL line as a integrated service like you might have
|done with a
|T1 just a few years back. CPE's to support this type of service are around
|$700... a modest price considering that is a full router and DSL
|Modem or T1
|CSU/DSU.
|
|Darrell
|
|-----Original Message-----
|From: Marlon K. Schafer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
|Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 4:35 PM
|To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
|Subject: Re: Voice Coop for ISPs
|
|
|Very very very few out here could justify anywhere near $500 extra
|per month
|just for long distance.
|
|I'd love to offer voice over my wireless and dsl systems but
|people out here
|are paying only $35/month for high speed connections. I'm not going to be
|able to get much more out of them.
|
|Marlon
|
|----- Original Message -----
|From: "Darrell Hale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
|To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
|Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 6:26 PM
|Subject: Voice Coop for ISPs
|
|
|>
|> For all of those ISPs out there that want to do voice services my company
|is
|> starting up a voice coop of sorts with various CLECs around the country
|that
|> have existing GR-303 capable switches. As well, in conjunction
|with other
|> small switch companies such as Taqua and Network Telco, we can provide
|> end-to-end advice on how to equip a small CLEC for voice services.
|Probably
|> the first instance of this will be in South Central and South East. How
|> many ISPs out there would be interested in joining into an effot
|to get an
|> additional $300-500 revenue a month per DSL line to the small business
|> customer?
|>
|> This is an interest poll as well as any technical or business questions
|you
|> might have about how to do Voice over DSL.
|>
|> Darrell
|>
|> P.S. Those who use Bell... there might be problems... those who use
|> Northpoint, Covad, Rhythmns, New Edge etc. will have better luck adding
|> voice.
|
|
|
|
|
|______________ • The ISP-DSL Discussion List • ______________
|To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
|To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
|Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/
|
|
|^^^^ http://www.genuity.com/dmail/ispoffers/e33.htm ^^^^^
|At Genuity, formerly GTE Internetworking and BBN, we give
|ISP's Tier 1 access through two innovative services
|Click the above link to learn more and get free research.
|
|______________ • The ISP-DSL Discussion List • ______________
|To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
|To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
|Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/
|
^^^^ http://www.genuity.com/dmail/ispoffers/e33.htm ^^^^^
At Genuity, formerly GTE Internetworking and BBN, we give
ISP's Tier 1 access through two innovative services
Click the above link to learn more and get free research.
______________ • The ISP-DSL Discussion List • ______________
To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: Voice Coop for ISPs
From: "Darrell Hale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 09:40:40 -0700
X-Message-Number: 8
Wow, you are in a unique situation. You could theoretically gobble up that
towns service with a Taqua switch from http://www.taqua.com. The incumbant
wouldn't stand a chance. Hard to go that small in an endeavor like this
because of what it would take to get GR-303 voice in there.
Darrell
-----Original Message-----
From: Marlon K. Schafer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 7:06 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Voice Coop for ISPs
What's wrong is that I'm in a small market. Only 1000 (not a typo) in my
whole local calling area. There are only 4 t-1's in the whole town (mine,
the other isp, the hospital, and the school) and two of them are paid for
with grants that specifically preclude them purchasing from anyone but the
telco.
I resell my t-1 via my wireless distribution system for $35/month. Find a
way for me to integrate your system into mine for an extra $10 (residential)
to $30 (business) and I think it would work for me. Would work much better
for many for that matter.....
marlon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darrell Hale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 11:31 PM
Subject: RE: Voice Coop for ISPs
>
> Perhaps you don't understand completely. With Voice over DSL, you can get
> an extra 8 lines out of a DSL line easily and cost effectively.
>
> As an ISP, you can offer a package of Voice, Data, and Long Distance that
is
> 35-50% under what Bell charges for the same service.
>
> Now if you can't tell me that you couldn't sell 8 phone lines at $25 a
piece
> (business lines I might add) and long distance for 5 cents a minute with
no
> minimum charge coupled with data for around $300-400 depending on the LD
> bill then I don't know what is wrong. Bell is charging $560 minimum for
the
> same services around Dallas... I know because I shopped them.
>
> You use one DSL line as a integrated service like you might have done with
a
> T1 just a few years back. CPE's to support this type of service are
around
> $700... a modest price considering that is a full router and DSL Modem or
T1
> CSU/DSU.
>
> Darrell
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marlon K. Schafer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 4:35 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Voice Coop for ISPs
>
>
> Very very very few out here could justify anywhere near $500 extra per
month
> just for long distance.
>
> I'd love to offer voice over my wireless and dsl systems but people out
here
> are paying only $35/month for high speed connections. I'm not going to be
> able to get much more out of them.
>
> Marlon
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Darrell Hale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 6:26 PM
> Subject: Voice Coop for ISPs
>
>
> >
> > For all of those ISPs out there that want to do voice services my
company
> is
> > starting up a voice coop of sorts with various CLECs around the country
> that
> > have existing GR-303 capable switches. As well, in conjunction with
other
> > small switch companies such as Taqua and Network Telco, we can provide
> > end-to-end advice on how to equip a small CLEC for voice services.
> Probably
> > the first instance of this will be in South Central and South East. How
> > many ISPs out there would be interested in joining into an effot to get
an
> > additional $300-500 revenue a month per DSL line to the small business
> > customer?
> >
> > This is an interest poll as well as any technical or business questions
> you
> > might have about how to do Voice over DSL.
> >
> > Darrell
> >
> > P.S. Those who use Bell... there might be problems... those who use
> > Northpoint, Covad, Rhythmns, New Edge etc. will have better luck adding
> > voice.
^^^^ http://www.genuity.com/dmail/ispoffers/e33.htm ^^^^^
At Genuity, formerly GTE Internetworking and BBN, we give
ISP's Tier 1 access through two innovative services
Click the above link to learn more and get free research.
______________ • The ISP-DSL Discussion List • ______________
To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Voice Coop for ISPs
From: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 07:58:59 -0700
X-Message-Number: 9
Very cool device!
My situation is not unique. There are a lot of us little guys out there
servicing the rural market. We do, however, tend to take it in the shorts
quite a bit and are almost totally ignored by everyone....
Oh well, that's part of why I love it out here! And no stop lights for 40
miles (not even a flashing one) is nice too!
Thanks for the info,
Marlon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darrell Hale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 9:40 AM
Subject: RE: Voice Coop for ISPs
>
> Wow, you are in a unique situation. You could theoretically gobble up
that
> towns service with a Taqua switch from http://www.taqua.com. The
incumbant
> wouldn't stand a chance. Hard to go that small in an endeavor like this
> because of what it would take to get GR-303 voice in there.
>
> Darrell
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marlon K. Schafer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 7:06 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Voice Coop for ISPs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: Voice Coop for ISPs
From: "Greg GDS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 10:21:19 -0500
X-Message-Number: 10
Hello everyone, I have just subscribed to this list in hopes of getting some
insight on DSL etc.
I am in a somewhat similar situation as Marlon, (a small town, about 5-6K
people) now we can not get DSL at present, nor can we get even a PRI but I
think it is coming soon as a lot of cable has been laid recently.
Here is my question to the list, What is the best way (in terms of equipment
and cost) to position ourselves to be able to enhance our current services
offering, we have 7 T-1s (CT-1) that are being accessed via simple dialup.
I would certainly be interested in being able to have subs accessing our
services via wireless similar to what it sounds like Marlon is doing (if he
is willing to share with me how he is doing it etc.) But also what will we
need (equipment etc.) to be able to offer DSL service once it is here? We
are fast approaching the point where we need more access for our subs (busy
sigs) but Don't really want to invest anymore in the same technology as we
have now (PM3s) since we do want to be able to do DSL, then maybe move in
the direction of what Darrel is suggesting..
Any input is greatly appreciated on or off line.
Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: Darrell Hale [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 11:41 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Voice Coop for ISPs
Wow, you are in a unique situation. You could theoretically gobble up that
towns service with a Taqua switch from http://www.taqua.com. The incumbant
wouldn't stand a chance. Hard to go that small in an endeavor like this
because of what it would take to get GR-303 voice in there.
Darrell
-----Original Message-----
From: Marlon K. Schafer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 7:06 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Voice Coop for ISPs
What's wrong is that I'm in a small market. Only 1000 (not a typo) in my
whole local calling area. There are only 4 t-1's in the whole town (mine,
the other isp, the hospital, and the school) and two of them are paid for
with grants that specifically preclude them purchasing from anyone but the
telco.
I resell my t-1 via my wireless distribution system for $35/month. Find a
way for me to integrate your system into mine for an extra $10 (residential)
to $30 (business) and I think it would work for me. Would work much better
for many for that matter.....
marlon
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: FW: Message rejected
From: "Darrell Hale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 10:48:01 -0700
X-Message-Number: 11
QoS can be determined by two methods. One is IP and the other is ATM. It
is interesting that you say Covad and Northpoint because both of them can
enable one type of the service.
IP QoS utilizes the Type Of Service header or TOS in an IP packet and the
Copper Mt. DSLAM's Northpoint uses are capable of IP-IQ software that does
this distinction. If it goes from the DSLAM back to the core then it would
have to do an FR-ATM interworking function. At that point, it can get
passed off to a ATM VC that is designated higher priority or value by giving
it VBR-rt, nrt, UBR, UBR+... whatever as long as the voice gets treated
better. The ATM method just extends two VC's down to the customer premise
box / modem / IAD and the voice goes through the ATM network its own path
and priority back to the gateway.
Darrell
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Voice Coop for ISPs
From: "Burke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 11:42:40 -0400
X-Message-Number: 12
Greg:
A lot of what you choose to do depends a great deal on what your outlook
looks like where you are. If the area has a lot of line of site blockages or
the
population is spread out thin, forget wireless. If you're just looking to do
a few
DSL lines and your phone company is cooperative, you can use Marlon's trick
of getting dry copper pairs and running DSL end units back to back. If
you're
looking for a good number of DSL lines or the phone co isn't cooperative in
giving you dry copper, the only reasonable thing is the CLEC (actually DLEC)
route and colocating a DSLAM with your phone company. We went thru the
CLEC process earlier this year, right in the thick of the colo process now.
Figures
I had to be the first one to ask Bell Atlantic to do something different :)
Vern
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg GDS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 11:21 AM
Subject: RE: Voice Coop for ISPs
> Hello everyone, I have just subscribed to this list in hopes of getting
some
> insight on DSL etc.
>
> I am in a somewhat similar situation as Marlon, (a small town, about 5-6K
> people) now we can not get DSL at present, nor can we get even a PRI but I
> think it is coming soon as a lot of cable has been laid recently.
>
> Here is my question to the list, What is the best way (in terms of
equipment
> and cost) to position ourselves to be able to enhance our current services
> offering, we have 7 T-1s (CT-1) that are being accessed via simple dialup.
> I would certainly be interested in being able to have subs accessing our
> services via wireless similar to what it sounds like Marlon is doing (if
he
> is willing to share with me how he is doing it etc.) But also what will
we
> need (equipment etc.) to be able to offer DSL service once it is here? We
> are fast approaching the point where we need more access for our subs
(busy
> sigs) but Don't really want to invest anymore in the same technology as we
> have now (PM3s) since we do want to be able to do DSL, then maybe move in
> the direction of what Darrel is suggesting..
>
> Any input is greatly appreciated on or off line.
> Greg
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darrell Hale [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 11:41 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: Voice Coop for ISPs
>
>
>
> Wow, you are in a unique situation. You could theoretically gobble up
that
> towns service with a Taqua switch from http://www.taqua.com. The
incumbant
> wouldn't stand a chance. Hard to go that small in an endeavor like this
> because of what it would take to get GR-303 voice in there.
>
> Darrell
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marlon K. Schafer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 7:06 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Voice Coop for ISPs
>
>
> What's wrong is that I'm in a small market. Only 1000 (not a typo) in my
> whole local calling area. There are only 4 t-1's in the whole town (mine,
> the other isp, the hospital, and the school) and two of them are paid for
> with grants that specifically preclude them purchasing from anyone but the
> telco.
>
> I resell my t-1 via my wireless distribution system for $35/month. Find a
> way for me to integrate your system into mine for an extra $10
(residential)
> to $30 (business) and I think it would work for me. Would work much
better
> for many for that matter.....
>
> marlon
>
>
>
> ^^^^ http://www.genuity.com/dmail/ispoffers/e33.htm ^^^^^
> At Genuity, formerly GTE Internetworking and BBN, we give
> ISP's Tier 1 access through two innovative services
> Click the above link to learn more and get free research.
>
> ______________ . The ISP-DSL Discussion List . ______________
> To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: VoDSL Coop
From: "Darrell Hale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 10:48:48 -0700
X-Message-Number: 13
QoS can be determined by two methods. One is IP and the other is ATM. It
is interesting that you say Covad and Northpoint because both of them can
enable one type of the service.
IP QoS utilizes the Type Of Service header or TOS in an IP packet and the
Copper Mt. DSLAM's Northpoint uses are capable of IP-IQ software that does
this distinction. If it goes from the DSLAM back to the core then it would
have to do an FR-ATM interworking function. At that point, it can get
passed off to a ATM VC that is designated higher priority or value by giving
it VBR-rt, nrt, UBR, UBR+... whatever as long as the voice gets treated
better. The ATM method just extends two VC's down to the customer premise
box / modem / IAD and the voice goes through the ATM network its own path
and priority back to the gateway.
Darrell
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: FW: Message rejected
From: "Darrell Hale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 10:49:14 -0700
X-Message-Number: 14
Wow, you are in a unique situation. You could theoretically gobble up that
towns service with a Taqua switch from http://www.taqua.com. The incumbant
wouldn't stand a chance. Hard to go that small in an endeavor like this
because of what it would take to get GR-303 voice in there.
Darrell
-
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Need DSL advise
From: "Greg GDS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 10:45:43 -0500
X-Message-Number: 15
Hello everyone, I have just subscribed to this list in hopes of getting some
insight on DSL etc.
I am in a somewhat similar situation as Marlon, (a small town, about 5-6K
people) now we can not get DSL at present, nor can we get even a PRI but I
think it is coming soon as a lot of cable has been laid recently.
Here is my question to the list, What is the best way (in terms of equipment
and cost) to position ourselves to be able to enhance our current services
offering, we have 7 T-1s (CT-1) that are being accessed via simple dialup.
I would certainly be interested in being able to have subs accessing our
services via wireless similar to what it sounds like Marlon is doing (if he
is willing to share with me how he is doing it etc.) But also what will we
need (equipment etc.) to be able to offer DSL service once it is here? We
are fast approaching the point where we need more access for our subs (busy
sigs) but Don't really want to invest anymore in the same technology as we
have now (PM3s) since we do want to be able to do DSL, then maybe move in
the direction of what Darrel is suggesting..
Any input is greatly appreciated on or off line.
Greg
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: VoDSL Coop
From: "Darrell Hale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 10:50:37 -0700
X-Message-Number: 16
QoS can be determined by two methods. One is IP and the other is ATM. It
is interesting that you say Covad and Northpoint because both of them can
enable one type of the service.
IP QoS utilizes the Type Of Service header or TOS in an IP packet and the
Copper Mt. DSLAM's Northpoint uses are capable of IP-IQ software that does
this distinction. If it goes from the DSLAM back to the core then it would
have to do an FR-ATM interworking function. At that point, it can get
passed off to a ATM VC that is designated higher priority or value by giving
it VBR-rt, nrt, UBR, UBR+... whatever as long as the voice gets treated
better. The ATM method just extends two VC's down to the customer premise
box / modem / IAD and the voice goes through the ATM network its own path
and priority back to the gateway.
Darrell
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: Voice Coop for ISPs
From: "Darrell Hale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 10:54:02 -0700
X-Message-Number: 17
Wow, you are in a unique situation. You could theoretically gobble up that
towns service with a Taqua switch from http://www.taqua.com. The incumbant
wouldn't stand a chance. Hard to go that small in an endeavor like this
because of what it would take to get GR-303 voice in there.
Darrell
-----Original Message-----
From: Marlon K. Schafer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 7:06 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Voice Coop for ISPs
What's wrong is that I'm in a small market. Only 1000 (not a typo) in my
whole local calling area. There are only 4 t-1's in the whole town (mine,
the other isp, the hospital, and the school) and two of them are paid for
with grants that specifically preclude them purchasing from anyone but the
telco.
I resell my t-1 via my wireless distribution system for $35/month. Find a
way for me to integrate your system into mine for an extra $10 (residential)
to $30 (business) and I think it would work for me. Would work much better
for many for that matter.....
marlon
Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: Voice Coop for ISPs
From: "Darrell Hale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 10:54:22 -0700
X-Message-Number: 18
QoS can be determined by two methods. One is IP and the other is ATM. It
is interesting that you say Covad and Northpoint because both of them can
enable one type of the service.
IP QoS utilizes the Type Of Service header or TOS in an IP packet and the
Copper Mt. DSLAM's Northpoint uses are capable of IP-IQ software that does
this distinction. If it goes from the DSLAM back to the core then it would
have to do an FR-ATM interworking function. At that point, it can get
passed off to a ATM VC that is designated higher priority or value by giving
it VBR-rt, nrt, UBR, UBR+... whatever as long as the voice gets treated
better. The ATM method just extends two VC's down to the customer premise
box / modem / IAD and the voice goes through the ATM network its own path
and priority back to the gateway.
Darrell
-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Herschlag [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 9:36 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Voice Coop for ISPs
Of course we are interested in VoDSL and see precisely the opportunity you
have outlined. And I am particularly interested to see what a co-op can do
to help move the situation along. As I see it now, we are dependent as Covad
and Northpoint resellers on what deals they make with CLECs for VoDSL, being
that they control their own DSLAMs. Of course, we can, in each metro area,
that we interconnect with such DSL carriers, split out the voice at the
point of interconnection with the carrier and hand that off to a CLEC, but
at that point the voice packets have traversed the carriers local network,
which is oversold in many cases and would likely result in inadequate QOS
for business-grade voice service. So what do we do about this situation?
What are Covad and Northpoint's current plans?
Daniel Herschlag
Chief Executive
Intercom Online
212 376 7440
www.intercom.com
www.mydsl.com
www.getyourdotcoms.com
|-----Original Message-----
|From: Darrell Hale [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
|Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 2:31 AM
|To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
|Subject: RE: Voice Coop for ISPs
|
|
|
|Perhaps you don't understand completely. With Voice over DSL, you can get
|an extra 8 lines out of a DSL line easily and cost effectively.
|
|As an ISP, you can offer a package of Voice, Data, and Long
|Distance that is
|35-50% under what Bell charges for the same service.
|
|Now if you can't tell me that you couldn't sell 8 phone lines at
|$25 a piece
|(business lines I might add) and long distance for 5 cents a minute with no
|minimum charge coupled with data for around $300-400 depending on the LD
|bill then I don't know what is wrong. Bell is charging $560
|minimum for the
|same services around Dallas... I know because I shopped them.
|
|You use one DSL line as a integrated service like you might have
|done with a
|T1 just a few years back. CPE's to support this type of service are around
|$700... a modest price considering that is a full router and DSL
|Modem or T1
|CSU/DSU.
|
|Darrell
|
|-----Original Message-----
|From: Marlon K. Schafer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
|Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 4:35 PM
|To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
|Subject: Re: Voice Coop for ISPs
|
|
|Very very very few out here could justify anywhere near $500 extra
|per month
|just for long distance.
|
|I'd love to offer voice over my wireless and dsl systems but
|people out here
|are paying only $35/month for high speed connections. I'm not going to be
|able to get much more out of them.
|
|Marlon
|
|----- Original Message -----
|From: "Darrell Hale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
|To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
|Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 6:26 PM
|Subject: Voice Coop for ISPs
|
|
|>
|> For all of those ISPs out there that want to do voice services my company
|is
|> starting up a voice coop of sorts with various CLECs around the country
|that
|> have existing GR-303 capable switches. As well, in conjunction
|with other
|> small switch companies such as Taqua and Network Telco, we can provide
|> end-to-end advice on how to equip a small CLEC for voice services.
|Probably
|> the first instance of this will be in South Central and South East. How
|> many ISPs out there would be interested in joining into an effot
|to get an
|> additional $300-500 revenue a month per DSL line to the small business
|> customer?
|>
|> This is an interest poll as well as any technical or business questions
|you
|> might have about how to do Voice over DSL.
|>
|> Darrell
|>
|> P.S. Those who use Bell... there might be problems... those who use
|> Northpoint, Covad, Rhythmns, New Edge etc. will have better luck adding
|> voice.
|
|
|
|
|
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: Voice Coop for ISPs
From: "Darrell Hale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 10:54:42 -0700
X-Message-Number: 19
I have inserted some answers below.
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve McCrann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 12:21 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Voice Coop for ISPs
Darrell,
this sounds interesting of course to providers always looking to ad more
services and $$ to their service lines but I have the following questions.
Since this technology is somewhat new can this equipment compilation deliver
five nines of uptime as dialtone does?
Our field data for 300,000 DS0's of Gateways in revenue generation shows
99.9985 of uptime. Expect to go to 5 nines on the next software release.
Will tariffs have to be filed in each state for the $25 business lines and
other
services?
Possibly. Depends on state to state but the reseller wouldn't have to worry
about this as the wholesaling CLEC would help them walk through the process.
Will this organization or each selling organization need the CLEC licensing
from
each state and how much $$ is that?
The wholesaling CLEC would charge an amount for the T1 GR-303's and the LD
being sold by the enabled ISP/CLEC.
Does this equipment handle caller ID, forwarding, messaging services, etc.?
911 system interfaces?
The equipment has 99.999% ubiquity of current features. The only thing that
doesn't work is P-phone and we have a solution through http://www.bizfon.com
Bizfon that takes care of that. What is nice is that our IAD has an
ethernet uplink and can be added onto existing deployments of data services
such as DSL, Frame Relay routers, etc.
Wouldn't you say that those that have colo DSLAMs in traditional central
offices
would be the way to do this, if you use Covad etc you are running over what
is
quite possibly a highly oversubscribed network that would be bypassed if the
voice services were cut out at the CO and not going through the backhaul
portion
to get to the ISP?
We don't have to worry about oversubscribtion and contention as the
technology behind the DSL Forum's BLES document covers that eventuality.
The voice gets priority over the data and the data gets shaped to allow the
voice to have 100% of the bandwidth it needs. The ISP itself may not ever
have to touch the voice stream of IP going out. The CLEC could terminate
GR-303 traffic into a NEBS compliant gateway at the CO where the link-up is
with Covad etc. The ISP would only have to worry about provisioning CPE and
the assignment of CRVs (call reference values or phone numbers) from the
interface group out to the customer premise.
Would you be offering voice services through a Redback or
router at the ISP location?
No... probably wouldn't touch the redback. It could though if the VC's
across ATM network was too choked up. We can aggregate IP voice with a
redback but not AAL2 ATM voice.
thanks, I know- a million questions but this sounds interesting, are you
proposing this as some sort of wholesale CLEC that uses ISPs and some of
their
networks for providing services? Who is your company and is there any
documentation of the offerings on your web pages?
Exactly... wholesale CLECs partner with ISPs and vice verca.
Tollbridge is the company at http://www.tollbridgetech.com
You won't find anything about this on the web page yet but you will find
customers that we have and the technology. This Coop / Consortium is still
in process of being linked up. We have some commitments from the SE and
Texas but not yet from the North and the West... that will come though.
Steve
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: Voice Coop for ISPs
From: "Darrell Hale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 10:55:03 -0700
X-Message-Number: 20
Great example... thanks. Another example would be what one of our
customers, MPower is doing on the consolodated broadband offering they have.
Without getting too detailed, check it out at
http://208.224.119.171/product/cbss2_lvs.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: William Devine, II [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 10:21 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Voice Coop for ISPs
Marlon/Darrell,
The best example is happening with Sprint and their SprintION system. I
just signed up with them to replace my four phone lines at my home office
(that I pay around $275-$300/month for, including about 700-800 minutes long
distance/month.) For a flat rate of $160 (residential locations only) you
get 4 phone lines, caller ID (name/number), voicemail, call forwarding, call
forwarding busy, call forwarding RNA (ring no answer), call waiting, three
way calling,..all services on all lines INCLUDING 750 minutes of long
distance shared among the lines. Plus anywhere from 8Megs down / 1.5Megs up
to 1.5Megs down / 384K up (depending on distance, I'm going to be hitting
the lower end at 10k-12k feet from the CO.)
This is a PERFECT example of what Darrell is talking about. EXCEPT it's
saving money on the residential side. Even without using the ADSL service
(I currently use Road Runner and consistently at 1.9Megabit/s downloads and
1.2Meg/s uploads almost 24x7 in my area) I'm still saving $100-$150/month
JUST on my phone lines. If the ISP service is dependable I'll switch over
to it (two static IP#'s, not dynamic) and save another $45/month.
This is in the Houston area. The install takes from 30-45 days, costs $250
for the SprintION 'gateway' which is controlled by software on your computer
to set voicemail stuff, call routing (line A rings to line 1, line B rings
to line 3, line 4 rings to line 2, etc), call forwarding and routing, and
all the fun stuff. They'll waive the $150 install charge and the $250
hardware cost for a 24 month committment (which I did of course) and only
penalize you the $250 if you cancel before 24 months.
If they're going after the residential market this bad, just wait until
they aim for the business market where they'll sell more than 4 lines per
location. Southwestern Bell better watch out.
William
-----Original Message-----
From: Darrell Hale [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 1:31 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Voice Coop for ISPs
Perhaps you don't understand completely. With Voice over DSL, you can get
an extra 8 lines out of a DSL line easily and cost effectively.
As an ISP, you can offer a package of Voice, Data, and Long Distance that is
35-50% under what Bell charges for the same service.
Now if you can't tell me that you couldn't sell 8 phone lines at $25 a piece
(business lines I might add) and long distance for 5 cents a minute with no
minimum charge coupled with data for around $300-400 depending on the LD
bill then I don't know what is wrong. Bell is charging $560 minimum for the
same services around Dallas... I know because I shopped them.
You use one DSL line as a integrated service like you might have done with a
T1 just a few years back. CPE's to support this type of service are around
$700... a modest price considering that is a full router and DSL Modem or T1
CSU/DSU.
Darrell
-----Original Message-----
From: Marlon K. Schafer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 4:35 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Voice Coop for ISPs
Very very very few out here could justify anywhere near $500 extra per month
just for long distance.
I'd love to offer voice over my wireless and dsl systems but people out here
are paying only $35/month for high speed connections. I'm not going to be
able to get much more out of them.
Marlon
Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: rural broadband, was-Re: Voice Coop for ISPs
From: "Marlon Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 09:22:25 -0700
X-Message-Number: 21
In a town of that size forget dsl. The telco will use it to screw you.
If your terrian is good put in wireless. (go to the isp-wireless list and
read the last 8 or so months of archives)
If not you might try a homebrew dsl system (www.odessaoffice.com/sdsl.htm).
Of course I'll help.... Always do as much as I can. Ask and ye shall
receive.
Marlon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg GDS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 8:21 AM
Subject: RE: Voice Coop for ISPs
> Hello everyone, I have just subscribed to this list in hopes of getting
some
> insight on DSL etc.
>
> I am in a somewhat similar situation as Marlon, (a small town, about 5-6K
> people) now we can not get DSL at present, nor can we get even a PRI but I
> think it is coming soon as a lot of cable has been laid recently.
>
> Here is my question to the list, What is the best way (in terms of
equipment
> and cost) to position ourselves to be able to enhance our current services
> offering, we have 7 T-1s (CT-1) that are being accessed via simple dialup.
> I would certainly be interested in being able to have subs accessing our
> services via wireless similar to what it sounds like Marlon is doing (if
he
> is willing to share with me how he is doing it etc.) But also what will
we
> need (equipment etc.) to be able to offer DSL service once it is here? We
> are fast approaching the point where we need more access for our subs
(busy
> sigs) but Don't really want to invest anymore in the same technology as we
> have now (PM3s) since we do want to be able to do DSL, then maybe move in
> the direction of what Darrel is suggesting..
>
> Any input is greatly appreciated on or off line.
> Greg
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: aggregating DSL and Cable signals
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 13:02:13 EDT
X-Message-Number: 22
I have a client who wants to take his cable fee and his DSL feed and aggregate
them so he has a faster throughput. Does any one know if there is a product
that supports this? That hopefully doesn't cost thousands?
Thanks for your help!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: aggregating DSL and Cable signals
From: "John Keown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 13:04:49 -0400
X-Message-Number: 23
Evidently you need to study up on your routing. this will not work.
Sincerely,
John Keown
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
NuNet Inc - The Premier National Provider
26 Bethlehem Plaza
Bethlehem, Pa 18018
1 888 NuNet Me (686 3863) Ext. 2000
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: aggregating DSL and Cable signals
> I have a client who wants to take his cable fee and his DSL feed and
aggregate
> them so he has a faster throughput. Does any one know if there is a
product
> that supports this? That hopefully doesn't cost thousands?
>
> Thanks for your help!
>
> ^^^^ http://www.genuity.com/dmail/ispoffers/e33.htm ^^^^^
> At Genuity, formerly GTE Internetworking and BBN, we give
> ISP's Tier 1 access through two innovative services
> Click the above link to learn more and get free research.
>
> ______________ . The ISP-DSL Discussion List . ______________
> To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: rural broadband, was-Re: Voice Coop for ISPs
From: "Greg GDS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 12:27:49 -0500
X-Message-Number: 24
Marlon can we take this off line as I have a lot of questions for you, and I
don't want to bore the list. We are very seriously thinking of doing the
CLEC reg. thing. And I think we can do the wireless (I have read the
wireless list but thanks, still have lots of questions), and we have access
to 2-3 towers already.
Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: Marlon Schafer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 11:22 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: rural broadband, was-Re: Voice Coop for ISPs
In a town of that size forget dsl. The telco will use it to screw you.
If your terrian is good put in wireless. (go to the isp-wireless list and
read the last 8 or so months of archives)
If not you might try a homebrew dsl system (www.odessaoffice.com/sdsl.htm).
Of course I'll help.... Always do as much as I can. Ask and ye shall
receive.
Marlon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg GDS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 8:21 AM
Subject: RE: Voice Coop for ISPs
> Hello everyone, I have just subscribed to this list in hopes of getting
some
> insight on DSL etc.
>
> I am in a somewhat similar situation as Marlon, (a small town, about 5-6K
> people) now we can not get DSL at present, nor can we get even a PRI but I
> think it is coming soon as a lot of cable has been laid recently.
>
> Here is my question to the list, What is the best way (in terms of
equipment
> and cost) to position ourselves to be able to enhance our current services
> offering, we have 7 T-1s (CT-1) that are being accessed via simple dialup.
> I would certainly be interested in being able to have subs accessing our
> services via wireless similar to what it sounds like Marlon is doing (if
he
> is willing to share with me how he is doing it etc.) But also what will
we
> need (equipment etc.) to be able to offer DSL service once it is here? We
> are fast approaching the point where we need more access for our subs
(busy
> sigs) but Don't really want to invest anymore in the same technology as we
> have now (PM3s) since we do want to be able to do DSL, then maybe move in
> the direction of what Darrel is suggesting..
>
> Any input is greatly appreciated on or off line.
> Greg
>
^^^^ http://www.genuity.com/dmail/ispoffers/e33.htm ^^^^^
At Genuity, formerly GTE Internetworking and BBN, we give
ISP's Tier 1 access through two innovative services
Click the above link to learn more and get free research.
______________ • The ISP-DSL Discussion List • ______________
To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: aggregating DSL and Cable signals
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Brill)
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 12:35:29 -0500
X-Message-Number: 25
Try this link - http://www.ragula.com/index.html
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 12:02 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: aggregating DSL and Cable signals
I have a client who wants to take his cable fee and his DSL feed and
aggregate
them so he has a faster throughput. Does any one know if there is a product
that supports this? That hopefully doesn't cost thousands?
Thanks for your help!
^^^^ http://www.genuity.com/dmail/ispoffers/e33.htm ^^^^^
At Genuity, formerly GTE Internetworking and BBN, we give
ISP's Tier 1 access through two innovative services
Click the above link to learn more and get free research.
______________ The ISP-DSL Discussion List ______________
To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: aggregating DSL and Cable signals
From: Dan Hollis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 12:12:04 -0700 (PDT)
X-Message-Number: 26
Looks like its a (possibly transparent) proxy with equal cost routing.
You could do the same with (FreeBSD|NetBSD|OpenBSD|Linux) and Squid, for
free.
-Dan
On Wed, 2 Aug 2000, Jim Brill wrote:
> Try this link - http://www.ragula.com/index.html
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 12:02 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: aggregating DSL and Cable signals
>
>
> I have a client who wants to take his cable fee and his DSL feed and
> aggregate
> them so he has a faster throughput. Does any one know if there is a product
> that supports this? That hopefully doesn't cost thousands?
>
> Thanks for your help!
>
> ^^^^ http://www.genuity.com/dmail/ispoffers/e33.htm ^^^^^
> At Genuity, formerly GTE Internetworking and BBN, we give
> ISP's Tier 1 access through two innovative services
> Click the above link to learn more and get free research.
>
> ______________ The ISP-DSL Discussion List ______________
> To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/
>
>
> ^^^^ http://www.genuity.com/dmail/ispoffers/e33.htm ^^^^^
> At Genuity, formerly GTE Internetworking and BBN, we give
> ISP's Tier 1 access through two innovative services
> Click the above link to learn more and get free research.
>
> ______________ • The ISP-DSL Discussion List • ______________
> To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: aggregating DSL and Cable signals
From: "Tony" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 12:33:40 -0700
X-Message-Number: 27
I looked at the link. My guess is that these boxes do IP spoofing in order
to balance the lines. That would work to a point. If you had only one user
and they were downloading a single huge file, I doubt you would see any
improvement. If you were pulling web pages, it would be faster because the
images could each be pulled from separate streams. If you had lots of
users, it would be work reasonably well.
If people were accessing the users network, you might combine it with a
round robin DNS scheme as the box wouldn't help people accessing the "users"
network from what I can read.
--Tony
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Brill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 10:35 AM
Subject: RE: aggregating DSL and Cable signals
> Try this link - http://www.ragula.com/index.html
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 12:02 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: aggregating DSL and Cable signals
>
>
> I have a client who wants to take his cable fee and his DSL feed and
> aggregate
> them so he has a faster throughput. Does any one know if there is a
product
> that supports this? That hopefully doesn't cost thousands?
>
> Thanks for your help!
>
> ^^^^ http://www.genuity.com/dmail/ispoffers/e33.htm ^^^^^
> At Genuity, formerly GTE Internetworking and BBN, we give
> ISP's Tier 1 access through two innovative services
> Click the above link to learn more and get free research.
>
> ______________ The ISP-DSL Discussion List ______________
> To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/
>
>
> ^^^^ http://www.genuity.com/dmail/ispoffers/e33.htm ^^^^^
> At Genuity, formerly GTE Internetworking and BBN, we give
> ISP's Tier 1 access through two innovative services
> Click the above link to learn more and get free research.
>
> ______________ . The ISP-DSL Discussion List . ______________
> To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: Voice Coop for ISPs
From: "William Devine, II" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 15:11:53 -0500
X-Message-Number: 28
Marlon,
The only problem with doing it over a wireless link compared to a DSL line,
is that with the way Sprint's doing it, if everything completely fails I at
least have a lifeline (ie everything fails but I still get dialtone for one
number straight through.)
That's not so with wireless. So with wireless you'd probably only be able
to do additive lines and not replace the primary line. But why not?
william
-----Original Message-----
From: Marlon K. Schafer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 9:06 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Voice Coop for ISPs
What's wrong is that I'm in a small market. Only 1000 (not a typo) in my
whole local calling area. There are only 4 t-1's in the whole town (mine,
the other isp, the hospital, and the school) and two of them are paid for
with grants that specifically preclude them purchasing from anyone but the
telco.
I resell my t-1 via my wireless distribution system for $35/month. Find a
way for me to integrate your system into mine for an extra $10 (residential)
to $30 (business) and I think it would work for me. Would work much better
for many for that matter.....
marlon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darrell Hale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 11:31 PM
Subject: RE: Voice Coop for ISPs
>
> Perhaps you don't understand completely. With Voice over DSL, you can get
> an extra 8 lines out of a DSL line easily and cost effectively.
>
> As an ISP, you can offer a package of Voice, Data, and Long Distance that
is
> 35-50% under what Bell charges for the same service.
>
> Now if you can't tell me that you couldn't sell 8 phone lines at $25 a
piece
> (business lines I might add) and long distance for 5 cents a minute with
no
> minimum charge coupled with data for around $300-400 depending on the LD
> bill then I don't know what is wrong. Bell is charging $560 minimum for
the
> same services around Dallas... I know because I shopped them.
>
> You use one DSL line as a integrated service like you might have done with
a
> T1 just a few years back. CPE's to support this type of service are
around
> $700... a modest price considering that is a full router and DSL Modem or
T1
> CSU/DSU.
>
> Darrell
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marlon K. Schafer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 4:35 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Voice Coop for ISPs
>
>
> Very very very few out here could justify anywhere near $500 extra per
month
> just for long distance.
>
> I'd love to offer voice over my wireless and dsl systems but people out
here
> are paying only $35/month for high speed connections. I'm not going to be
> able to get much more out of them.
>
> Marlon
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Darrell Hale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 6:26 PM
> Subject: Voice Coop for ISPs
>
>
> >
> > For all of those ISPs out there that want to do voice services my
company
> is
> > starting up a voice coop of sorts with various CLECs around the country
> that
> > have existing GR-303 capable switches. As well, in conjunction with
other
> > small switch companies such as Taqua and Network Telco, we can provide
> > end-to-end advice on how to equip a small CLEC for voice services.
> Probably
> > the first instance of this will be in South Central and South East. How
> > many ISPs out there would be interested in joining into an effot to get
an
> > additional $300-500 revenue a month per DSL line to the small business
> > customer?
> >
> > This is an interest poll as well as any technical or business questions
> you
> > might have about how to do Voice over DSL.
> >
> > Darrell
> >
> > P.S. Those who use Bell... there might be problems... those who use
> > Northpoint, Covad, Rhythmns, New Edge etc. will have better luck adding
> > voice.
^^^^ http://www.genuity.com/dmail/ispoffers/e33.htm ^^^^^
At Genuity, formerly GTE Internetworking and BBN, we give
ISP's Tier 1 access through two innovative services
Click the above link to learn more and get free research.
______________ • The ISP-DSL Discussion List • ______________
To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: NEBS cross connect panels
From: "Burke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 16:09:53 -0400
X-Message-Number: 29
Greetings all:
Any suggestions for suppliers of 23" rackmount cross connection/patch
panels?
Looking probably for 25 pair telco connections on one side, modular or
punchdown
connections on the other.
Vern
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: Backhauling from Orlando to Tampa pop
From: "Instantnetworks.net Sales" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 13:45:19 +0100
X-Message-Number: 30
Sorry it was 2AM. I am glad you pointed it out.
Regardless I am now awake and well. Please feel free to contact me offline.
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: Blake Fithen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 6:00 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Backhauling from Orlando to Tampa pop
Not to be negative but if you can't spell the name of the companies
product you are reselling I don't feel comfortable asking you for help
with a very complex problem that Qwest upper management can't
relieve.
It's "Qwest", not "Quest".
blake
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Instantnetworks.net Sales [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 2:42 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: Backhauling from Orlando to Tampa pop
>
> Good afternoon,
>
> I am an authorized distributor of Quest communications (mostly with small
> businesses not ISP's) perhaps I could help you or someone else with any
> problems?
>
> Thanks
>
> Dan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blake Fithen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2000 5:35 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: Backhauling from Orlando to Tampa pop
>
>
> I've had / am having a terrible time with Qwest.
> I would recommend anyone but them.
>
> my $.02
>
> blake
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: GiantWeb [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2000 7:36 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: RE: Backhauling from Orlando to Tampa pop
> >
> >
> > check out qwest
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bill Heinz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2000 8:26 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Backhauling from Orlando to Tampa pop
> >
> >
> >
> > We have a Cisco 3620 with 2 local loops, and a dedicated
> > frame T1 to the
> > internet, all through GTE. We are considering offering DSL
> > through BellSouth
> > in the rest of Fl. We would like to be able to backhaul a
> > line from Orlando
> > to our tampa pop. Is this financially feasible? Bellsouth
> > works on ATM.
> >
> > Thanks in advance!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Bill Heinz
> > Vice President
> > TampaBayDSL
> > www.TampabayDSL.com
> > (813(243-8850
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________ * The ISP-DSL Discussion List * ______________
> > To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________ * The ISP-DSL Discussion List * ______________
> > To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/
> >
>
> ^^^^ http://www.genuity.com/dmail/ispoffers/e33.htm ^^^^^
> At Genuity, formerly GTE Internetworking and BBN, we give
> ISP's Tier 1 access through two innovative services
> Click the above link to learn more and get free research.
>
> ______________ * The ISP-DSL Discussion List * ______________
> To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/
>
>
> ^^^^ http://www.genuity.com/dmail/ispoffers/e33.htm ^^^^^
> At Genuity, formerly GTE Internetworking and BBN, we give
> ISP's Tier 1 access through two innovative services
> Click the above link to learn more and get free research.
>
> ______________ * The ISP-DSL Discussion List * ______________
> To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/
______________ • The ISP-DSL Discussion List • ______________
To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: New Edge
From: Dan Bustillos - Datalink Computer Services <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 14:15:29 -0700
X-Message-Number: 31
Mark,
Is your CO turned up yest. I am seeing installs within 2 weeks of
placing the order out here in Chico Ca. Who is your AE or ADR?
MJB stated on 8/1/00 12:22:
>Is anyone using New Edge Networks for DSL? And are they getting actual
>install dates? We have some users that have been waiting for 5 months sinc=
e
>placing the order with New Edge and still no installs so far.
>
>Thanks,
>Mark
>
>
>^^^^ http://www.genuity.com/dmail/ispoffers/e33.htm ^^^^^
>At Genuity, formerly GTE Internetworking and BBN, we give
>ISP's Tier 1 access through two innovative services
>Click the above link to learn more and get free research.
>
>______________ =EF The ISP-DSL Discussion List =EF ______________
>To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-dsl/archives/
Thank you,
Dan Bustillos
Datalink Computer Services
(530) 897-6400x105
(888) 327-4638x105
*******************
"First rule of Government Spending: Why build one when you can build two
at twice the price"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Voice Coop for ISPs
From: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 20:37:47 -0700
X-Message-Number: 32
Why would you have a failover? Someone whacks your phone cable (anywhere
from your house back to the co) and you'll be dead anyway.....
My wireless system has had better up time than my t-1 so far so I'm not
worried about down time. And, if I could put enough business on the system
it would be much easier for me to put up redundant systems that could reach
you (turn off one system and turn on another) than the telco could put in
redundant copper.
Marlon
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Devine, II" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 1:11 PM
Subject: RE: Voice Coop for ISPs
> Marlon,
> The only problem with doing it over a wireless link compared to a DSL
line,
> is that with the way Sprint's doing it, if everything completely fails I
at
> least have a lifeline (ie everything fails but I still get dialtone for
one
> number straight through.)
> That's not so with wireless. So with wireless you'd probably only be able
> to do additive lines and not replace the primary line. But why not?
>
> william
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marlon K. Schafer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 9:06 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Voice Coop for ISPs
>
>
> What's wrong is that I'm in a small market. Only 1000 (not a typo) in my
> whole local calling area. There are only 4 t-1's in the whole town (mine,
> the other isp, the hospital, and the school) and two of them are paid for
> with grants that specifically preclude them purchasing from anyone but the
> telco.
>
> I resell my t-1 via my wireless distribution system for $35/month. Find a
> way for me to integrate your system into mine for an extra $10
(residential)
> to $30 (business) and I think it would work for me. Would work much
better
> for many for that matter.....
>
> marlon
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Darrell Hale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 11:31 PM
> Subject: RE: Voice Coop for ISPs
>
>
> >
> > Perhaps you don't understand completely. With Voice over DSL, you can
get
> > an extra 8 lines out of a DSL line easily and cost effectively.
> >
> > As an ISP, you can offer a package of Voice, Data, and Long Distance
that
> is
> > 35-50% under what Bell charges for the same service.
> >
> > Now if you can't tell me that you couldn't sell 8 phone lines at $25 a
> piece
> > (business lines I might add) and long distance for 5 cents a minute with
> no
> > minimum charge coupled with data for around $300-400 depending on the LD
> > bill then I don't know what is wrong. Bell is charging $560 minimum for
> the
> > same services around Dallas... I know because I shopped them.
> >
> > You use one DSL line as a integrated service like you might have done
with
> a
> > T1 just a few years back. CPE's to support this type of service are
> around
> > $700... a modest price considering that is a full router and DSL Modem
or
> T1
> > CSU/DSU.
> >
> > Darrell
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Marlon K. Schafer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 4:35 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: Voice Coop for ISPs
> >
> >
> > Very very very few out here could justify anywhere near $500 extra per
> month
> > just for long distance.
> >
> > I'd love to offer voice over my wireless and dsl systems but people out
> here
> > are paying only $35/month for high speed connections. I'm not going to
be
> > able to get much more out of them.
> >
> > Marlon
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Darrell Hale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 6:26 PM
> > Subject: Voice Coop for ISPs
> >
> >
> > >
> > > For all of those ISPs out there that want to do voice services my
> company
> > is
> > > starting up a voice coop of sorts with various CLECs around the
country
> > that
> > > have existing GR-303 capable switches. As well, in conjunction with
> other
> > > small switch companies such as Taqua and Network Telco, we can provide
> > > end-to-end advice on how to equip a small CLEC for voice services.
> > Probably
> > > the first instance of this will be in South Central and South East.
How
> > > many ISPs out there would be interested in joining into an effot to
get
> an
> > > additional $300-500 revenue a month per DSL line to the small business
> > > customer?
> > >
> > > This is an interest poll as well as any technical or business
questions
> > you
> > > might have about how to do Voice over DSL.
> > >
> > > Darrell
> > >
> > > P.S. Those who use Bell... there might be problems... those who use
> > > Northpoint, Covad, Rhythmns, New Edge etc. will have better luck
adding
> > > voice.
---
END OF DIGEST
---
You are currently subscribed to isp-dsl as: archive@jab.org
