Hi Filip,

This certainly looks like a timing issue especially if you need two different 
baudrates to get it working which is suprising to see that it does work.

The serial software library is not so strickt if you look at timing. Serial 
hardware samples the incoming signal and my be more strickt.

As already requested you should send a schematic diagram of your hardware. What 
serial hardware is used on the PC?

Kind regards,

Rob

________________________________
Van: [email protected] <[email protected]> namens flyway38 
<[email protected]>
Verzonden: dinsdag 17 mei 2022 12:48
Aan: jallib <[email protected]>
Onderwerp: Re: [jallib] Help about serial_hardware library for the 16F18313

Hi Vasile,

Thanks for the inputs here.
In fact, theres a problem about the baud rate, but this problem lets project 
work ok using serial_software; PIC is set for 38400 and PC port need to be set 
for 57600. Don't know why, but this is the way it's working for several weeks 
of developing...
Using serial_hardware lib, not even playing around the baud rate divergences 
makes it work correctly. No correct data arriving to PC or to PIC...
Big puzzle here :D
Thanks anyways.

Cheers,
Filipe Santos.

On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 5:25:09 AM UTC+1 vasile wrote:
Double check if you have correct settings, baud speed, bit number, parity and 
stop bit. Set something like 9600, 8, N, 1 for the beginning.
Then check that your terminal is set to display the same thing as you send ( if 
you send hex don't expect that the terminal set for ASCII will display correct 
your data)...
Last, the problem might be on the computer side as well, not necessarily on the 
PIC...

On Mon, May 16, 2022 at 9:27 PM flyway38 <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi again,

Correction to my last post.
All working good using serial_software, with invert bit to false.
But, still Frame or Break issues in communication using serial_hardware...

Have done this Kiste test;
forever loop
   serial_hw_data=0x22
   serial_hw_data=0x22
   delay_1s(1)
end loop

and here's the results;
d7 00                                            ×.
d5 00                                            Õ.
d7 00                                            ×.
d7 00                                            ×.
d7 00                                            ×.
d7 00                                            ×.
d7 00                                            ×.
d7 00                                            ×.
d7 00                                            ×.
d7 00                                            ×.
d7 00                                            ×.
d5 00                                            Õ.
d7 00                                            ×.
d7 00                                            ×.
d7 00                                            ×.
d7 00                                            ×.
d5 00                                            Õ.
d7 00                                            ×.
d7 00                                            ×.
d5 00                                            Õ.
d7 00                                            ×.
d5 00                                            Õ.
d5 00                                            Õ.
d7 00                                            ×.
d7 00                                            ×.

Any ideas?
Thank you very much.

Cheers,
Filipe Santos
On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 7:22:48 PM UTC+1 flyway38 wrote:
Hey all,

Miracles do happen.
Maybe I have an easier way.
Am using and FTDI cable (USB - RS232/5V) and it has a configurable EEprom.
This configuration includes inversion of all RS232 signals. Have inverted RX 
and TX and this way am using now serial_software with that inversion bit to 
false.
Computer receives good data, but it seems RX on PIC side shouldn't be 
inverted... not receiveing good data from computer.
Can anyone confirm this? TX should be the only one to be inverted?
Thank you very much.

Kind regrads,
Filipe Santos.

On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 6:33:38 PM UTC+1 flyway38 wrote:
Hi Rob,

Yes, You're right.
And yes, will change my design for that hardware comm line inversion.
Then will back here for results or new issues :D
Thank you very much for all help.
Cheers.

Kind regards,
Filipe Santos.

On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 11:41:31 AM UTC+1 [email protected] wrote:
Hi Filip,

If I understand you right you use inverted serial data. In the serial software 
library everything - including the startbit - is inverted if you select the 
inverted mode. In hardware only the data can be inverted but not the startbit.

Is it not possible to add an inverter to your board so that the data is not 
inverted and so you can use serial hardware? You could make an inverter with 
one transistor and 2 resistors.

Kind regards,

Rob

________________________________
Van: [email protected] <[email protected]> namens flyway38 
<[email protected]>
Verzonden: zondag 15 mei 2022 21:20
Aan: jallib <[email protected]>

Onderwerp: Re: [jallib] Help about serial_hardware library for the 16F18313
Hey all,

Thank you very much to all.
Yes, tried timeout option, but I loose alot of received data.
I think that , for now (8 pin PIC), sending to pic dummy data to unlock that 
loop is my best option.
This way works better than timeout solution under serial_software lib usage.
Unless some miraculous idea comes along.. :D

Anyways, later on, will redesign this project for a bigger board and use a 
bigger PIC.
Thank you to all once again.

Kind regards,
Filipe Santos.

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 4:44:36 PM UTC+1 [email protected] wrote:
Hi Kiste,

I fully agree with you. Not worth to add a timeout.

Kind regards,

Rob

________________________________
Van: 'Oliver Seitz' via jallib <[email protected]>
Verzonden: zondag 15 mei 2022 17:33

Aan: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Onderwerp: Re: [jallib] Help about serial_hardware library for the 16F18313
Hi Rob,

the most critical thing when receiving asynchronous data, is to precisely catch 
the starting edge of the start bit, as all the timing in the following byte 
depends on it.

while serial_sw_rx_pin loop
end loop

This is in fact only two machine instructions, and therefore reacts within 2Tcy 
or 2µs at 4MHz.

I did not count the machine instructions for subtracting a dword, but I think 
it must be more than 12 instructions, and another 12 for comparing to 0. Plus 
the 1µs delay,  plus the "&"... Will take at least 30µs at 4MHz. If that is 
more than half a bit, data corruption is more than likely. 1/60µs=16666 baud is 
the speed beyond that a 4MHz controller will certainly not be able to follow 
anymore.

If the transmission starts right after the timeout is over, depending on the 
main program, corrupt data will be received (or a byte is completely lost).

Serial_software is a poor thing on the receiving side anyway. If you see it as 
an improvement, go ahead. I would under all circumstances avoid using 
serial_software for receiving, even more so with that timeout.

Greets,
Kiste

Am Sonntag, 15. Mai 2022, 16:57:09 MESZ hat Rob CJ <[email protected]> 
Folgendes geschrieben:


Hi Kiste, Filip,

An option would be to extend the serial_software.jal library with a maximum 
wait time for reading and when a timeout occurs return a '0' as data.

So something like.
      -- See if a timeout is defined to prevent an endless wait
      if defined(SERIAL_SOFTWARE_READ_TIMEOUT) then
         var dword _serial_timeout = SERIAL_SOFTWARE_READ_TIMEOUT
         -- wait for startbit with timeout
         while serial_sw_rx_pin & (_serial_timeout > 0) loop
            _serial_timeout = _serial_timeout - 1
            _usec_delay(1)
         end loop
      else
         -- wait for startbit without a timeout
        while serial_sw_rx_pin loop end loop
      end if

   -- When a timeout is defined and a timeout occcured return 0 as data.
   if defined(SERIAL_SOFTWARE_READ_TIMEOUT) then
     if (_serial_timeout == 0) then
        data = 0
      end if
   end if

Would that work?

Kind regards,

Rob

________________________________
Van: 'Oliver Seitz' via jallib <[email protected]>
Verzonden: zondag 15 mei 2022 15:46
Aan: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Onderwerp: Re: [jallib] Help about serial_hardware library for the 16F18313

Hi!

Well... 8 pin is a problem... I only have solutions which aren't that elegant...


- use a different USB UART, which uses the idle high mode (which in fact is 
standard on 3.3 and 5 volt levels)
- if you have an I/O pin (other than RA4) to spare, use the comparator or a CLC 
to invert the signal, and connect the output and RX to that same pin via PPS
- use external circuitry to invert the signal, like a MAX232, which is 
inverting since the 1970s and therefore in fact the reason for all the 
confusion ;-)
- write a new library, which receives by timers and pin-change interrupts

Greets,
Kiste

Am Sonntag, 15. Mai 2022, 14:56:49 MESZ hat flyway38 <[email protected]> 
Folgendes geschrieben:


Hi Kiste,

Understad your points.
The main issue am trying to solve while using serial_software (wich makes my 
project runs good enough) is that loop while trying to receive data;
"while !serial_sw_rx_pin loop".
Because of this loop have to constantly send dummy data to allow PIC out of the 
loop.
All other code runs fairly ok (somewhat sluggish, but good enough for the 
needs).
Checked PIC18F14K2, the problem is I need to stick to 8pin THT PIC right now...
On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 12:42:01 PM UTC+1 Kiste wrote:
Hi Filipe,

that's an important information: seral_sw_invert defaults to "true". If you had 
to set it, you have set it to "false". That means, the line you are driving is 
in "idle low" mode. That mode is not supported by serial_hardware, as it is not 
supported by the classical USART hardware in PIC controllers.

You can not cure that problem by sendig serial_hw_data=!value , as that does 
not alter the polarity of start- and stopbits.

With the delay of 300µs between bytes, you do not cure the framing error. By 
doing so, you mislead the receiver to recognise data bits as framing bits, so 
it's one error masking the other error.

If you can use another PIC, like PIC18F14K22, the hardware can be set to "idle 
low" mode for sending and receiving, your 16f18313 can only use the 
transmission side in that mode. So, to make the receiving side work, you would 
have to use additional hardware (or peripherals like CLC or comparators) to 
invert incoming data.

Greets,
Kiste

Am Sonntag, 15. Mai 2022, 13:06:54 MESZ hat flyway38 <[email protected]> 
Folgendes geschrieben:


Hi Kiste,

Thak you very much for your input.
Will test your code to check and answer you.
Anyways, right now I can avoid the Framming Error but still receiving incorrect 
data while using serial_hardware library.

About framming Error, the problem was due to the way I sent data to transmit 
reg.
I was sending two bytes with no delay in between (it works good like this using 
serial_software lib).
But if I use a delay of about 300us between the two bytes sent, Frame Error 
disppears, but as said above, received data by computer is incorrect.
Less than that delay, I get Frame Error.

Can answer your question about "const bit serial_sw_invert". Yes, needed to set 
this var using serial_software.
Will back here with answer for your second quest.
Thank you

Cheers,
Filipe Santos.
On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 10:48:19 AM UTC+1 Kiste wrote:
That data is a bit complex for easy analysis, though I see that you've got a 
repeating value every five bytes in all of the samples. The baud rate therefore 
should not be the problem.

If you want to rely on my guess, insert after "seral_hw_init()"

BAUDCON1_SCKP=1
If this helps for transmission, you can't use the USART directly for receiving, 
as it has no inversion option for RX. In that case, you can use a CLC or a 
comparator as inverter.


If you want to track down the error and learn how to do that, please answer my 
questions:

Have you set "const bit serial_sw_invert" with serial software?

What is the result if you just transmit a single character with pauses?

forever loop
   serial_hw_data="@"
   delay_1s(1)
end loop


Greets,
Kiste

Am Sonntag, 15. Mai 2022, 11:11:09 MESZ hat flyway38 <[email protected]> 
Folgendes geschrieben:


Hello Kiste,

I use Termite to check what flows in my comm line.
Here's what I see and makes my project work good enough, using serial_software 
(small extract):

09 00 ed ef 2a f1 09 00 ed ef 2a f1 09 00 ed ef  ..íï*ñ..íï*ñ..íï
2a f1 09 00 ed ef 2a f1 09 00 ed ef 2a f1 09 00  *ñ..íï*ñ..íï*ñ..
ed ef 2a f1 09 00 ed ef 2a f1 09 00 ed ef 2a f1  íï*ñ..íï*ñ..íï*ñ
09 00 ed ef 2a f1 09 00 ed ef 2a f1 09 00 ed ef  ..íï*ñ..íï*ñ..íï
2a f1 09 00 ed ef 2a f1 09 00 ed ef 2a f1 09 00  *ñ..íï*ñ..íï*ñ..
ed ef 2a f1 09 00 ed ef 2a f1 09 00 ed ef 2a f1  íï*ñ..íï*ñ..íï*ñ
09 00 ee ef 2a f1 09 00 ed ef 2a f1 09 00 ed ef  ..îï*ñ..íï*ñ..íï
2a f1 09 00 ed ef 2a f1 09 00 ed ef 2a f1 09 00  *ñ..íï*ñ..íï*ñ..
ed ef 2a f1 09 00 ed ef 2a f1 09 00 ed ef 2a f1  íï*ñ..íï*ñ..íï*ñ
09 00 ed ef 2a f1 09 00 ed ef 2a f1 09 00 ed ef  ..íï*ñ..íï*ñ..íï
2a f1 09 00 ed ef 2a f1 09 00 ed ef 2a f1 09 00  *ñ..íï*ñ..íï*ñ..
ed ef 2a f1 09 00 ee ef 2a f1 09 00 ee ef 2a f1  íï*ñ..îï*ñ..îï*ñ
09 00 ed ef 2a f1 09 00 ed ef 2a f1 09 00 ed ef  ..íï*ñ..íï*ñ..íï
2a f1 09 00 ed ef 2a f1 09 00 ed ef 2a f1 09 00  *ñ..íï*ñ..íï*ñ..

Now here's what I see using serial_hardware:

9a f1 81 80 f5 ef 92 f1 81 80 fd ef 9a f1 81 80  šñ €õï’ñ €ýïšñ €
f5 ef 9a f1 81 80 f6 ef 9a f1 89 80 fd ef 9a f1  õïšñ €öïšñ‰€ýïšñ
89 80 fe ef 9a f1 89 80 fd ef 9a f1 89 80 f5 ef  ‰€þïšñ‰€ýïšñ‰€õï
92 f1 81 80 f5 ef 9a f1 81 80 f5 ef 92 f1 89 80  ’ñ €õïšñ €õï’ñ‰€
f5 ef 9a f1 81 80 f5 ef 9a f1 81 80 fd ef 9a f1  õïšñ €õïšñ €ýïšñ
89 80 fe ef 9a f1 89 80 fd ef 9a f1 89 80 fd ef  ‰€þïšñ‰€ýïšñ‰€ýï
9a f1 89 80 f5 ef 92 f1 81 80 fd ef 9a f1 89 80  šñ‰€õï’ñ €ýïšñ‰€
fd ef 9a f1 81 80 fd ef 92 f1 89 80 fe ef 9a f1  ýïšñ €ýï’ñ‰€þïšñ
81 80 fd ef 9a f1 89 80 f5 ef 9a f1 81 80 fd ef   €ýïšñ‰€õïšñ €ýï
9a f1 81 80 fe ef 9a f1 81 80 f5 ef 9a f1 89 80  šñ €þïšñ €õïšñ‰€
f5 ef 9a f1 81 80 ed ef 9a f1 81 80 f5 ef 9a f1  õïšñ €íïšñ €õïšñ
89 80 fd ef 9a f1 89 80 f6 ef 92 f1 89 80 fe ef  ‰€ýïšñ‰€öï’ñ‰€þï
92 f1 89 80 fd ef 92 f1 81 80 fe ef 92 f1 89 80  ’ñ‰€ýï’ñ €þï’ñ‰€
f5 ef 9a f1 81 80 fe ef 92 f1 89 80 fd ef 9a f1  õïšñ €þï’ñ‰€ýïšñ
81 80 fd ef 8a f1 89 80 fd ef 92 f1 81 80 fd ef   €ýïŠñ‰€ýï’ñ €ýï
92 f1 81 80 fd ef 9a f1 81 80 ed ef 92 f1 89 80  ’ñ €ýïšñ €íï’ñ‰€

Finally, here's what I see using serial_hardware, inverted data in 
serial_hw_write function ("TXREG = !data"):

82 90 e5 8e fe ff 82 90 e5 8e f6 ff 8a 90 ed 8e  ‚ åŽþÿ‚ åŽöÿŠ íŽ
fe ff 8a 90 ed 8e fe ff 8a 90 e5 8e fe ff 89 90  þÿŠ íŽþÿŠ åŽþÿ‰
e5 8e fe ff 82 90 e5 8e f6 ff 81 90 ed 8e f6 ff  åŽþÿ‚ åŽöÿ íŽöÿ
82 90 ed 8e f6 ff 8a 90 e5 8e f6 ff 82 90 ed 8e  ‚ íŽöÿŠ åŽöÿ‚ íŽ
f6 ff 8a 90 ed 8e fe ff 82 90 e5 8e f6 ff 81 90  öÿŠ íŽþÿ‚ åŽöÿ
ed 8e f6 ff 82 90 e5 8e f6 ff 82 90 e5 8e fe ff  íŽöÿ‚ åŽöÿ‚ åŽþÿ
8a 90 e5 8e f6 ff 8a 90 e5 8e f6 ff 82 90 ed 8e  Š åŽöÿŠ åŽöÿ‚ íŽ
f6 ff 82 90 e5 8e fe ff 81 90 e5 8e fe ff 82 90  öÿ‚ åŽþÿ åŽþÿ‚
ed 8e fe ff 82 90 ed 8e fe ff 8a 90 ed 8e fe ff  íŽþÿ‚ íŽþÿŠ íŽþÿ
82 90 e5 8e fe ff 82 90 ed 8e fe ff 82 90 e5 8e  ‚ åŽþÿ‚ íŽþÿ‚ åŽ
fe ff 8a 90 e5 8e f6 ff 82 90 ed 8e fe ff 82 90  þÿŠ åŽöÿ‚ íŽþÿ‚
e5 8e fe ff 82 90 e5 8e fe ff 82 90 e5 8e f6 ff  åŽþÿ‚ åŽþÿ‚ åŽöÿ
82 90 e5 8e f6 ff 81 90 ed 8e f6 ff 8a 90 ed 8e  ‚ åŽöÿ íŽöÿŠ íŽ
f6 ff 82 90 e5 8e f6 ff 8a 90 e5 8e f6 ff 89 90  öÿ‚ åŽöÿŠ åŽöÿ‰
ed 8e f6 ff 8a 90 e5 8e fe ff 82 90 ed 8e fe ff  íŽöÿŠ åŽþÿ‚ íŽþÿ
82 90 ed 8e f6 ff 82 90 e5 8e f6 ff 82 90 e5 8e  ‚ íŽöÿ‚ åŽöÿ‚ åŽ

It seems serial_hardware is not transmitting same data.
Any help would be great.
Thank you.

Cheers,
Filipe Santos

On Sunday, May 15, 2022 at 6:57:39 AM UTC+1 Kiste wrote:
Hi Filipe,

If serial_software works with "const bit serial_sw_invert = true", then 
serial_hardware should also work. serial_software supports the non-inverted 
mode, the uart hardware in newer PICs also supports the non-inverted mode, but 
the serial_hardware library does not yet support that mode natively.

Have you tried single chars with time in between?

forever loop
   serial_hw_data="@"
   delay_1s(1)
end loop

This loop transmits a start bit and a single set data bit every second. From 
the results you're seeing on the PC, the error might be narrowed down.

Greets,
Kiste


Am Samstag, 14. Mai 2022, 22:58:28 MESZ hat flyway38 <[email protected]> 
Folgendes geschrieben:


Hi to all,

Have been using serial_software library with enough success until now.
Am coding for use a TTL-232R-5V-AI USB Cable to connect to computer.
Using serial_software library with invert bit activated, am getting good 
results.
It all works good enough sending data to computer
The problem with this library is while receiving data from computer. As soon as 
this funcion is activated in PIC code, the library locks in a loop waiting for 
data.
So, started to migrate my code for use with serial_hardware library instead, to 
avoid this lock.
But now I get Frame Error from COMM PORT with not usefull data, all the time. 
Even if I invert data received. Have also tried different baud rates, etc...
Can anyone help about this issue?
Thank you very much.

Kind regards,
Filipe Santos.

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