"You" is very hard to use in Japanese. I've been studying the language for a long time (10+ years) and have spent a year on high school exchange as well as studying engineering in grad school now (for 2.5 years). Many people address each other using their names or without a reference to you at all - I assume this is another part of the non-direct/assuming nature of Japanese language.
"Nan da yo" can be used with your friends as in saying "What?" but it's more of a "What do you want!" It can also be used in fights and in an insulting manner. Regarding keigo, it's a great experience being in a Japanese research lab, which is similar to an office setting. I'm a 1st year Master's student, so I talk to all those students above me (2nd year Master's, Doctorate, etc.) in the generic formal language, then even more formal (honorific) in regards to the teachers/professors. Those below me (only the final year undergraduates) do I talk informally (i.e. talking 'down' to them). I find it difficult to feel like I have made friendships - there's the guy sitting next to me who I'm closest with, but I'm always talking politely to him as he's the year above me. It feels like there is a barrier there, but perhaps that's just my view being a foreigner. You're just expressing your relationship in terms of keigo? --- Marina Jovanoviæ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I see. So "Nan da yo?" said by a flirtatious woman > and a neurotic > > gangster are two different things. Right? > > Well, "Nan da yo?" is along the lines of a very > irritated and impatient > "WHAT!?" It's not really an insult, it's just rude. > So you may expect that > anyone saying that is really not pleased with you. > Japanese insults are much more subtle than that. > Sure, there are open > insults and swear words, but in Japanese, depending > on the situation, > someone can offend you by simply using the wrong > word for "you". Or > pronouncing that word with the wrong voice. Or by > using "you" at all. It's > all in the context. > > > I see. Again. Then again, using the wrong style of > speech in the > > wrong situation is the same as taboo speech, as > far as I know. > > Imagine using "hanashikotoba" when speaking to a > doctor, vs. > > using "sonkeigo" when talking to your friends. An > elderly man once > > told me not to use any "sonkeigo" in my [e-mail] > conversations with > > him, but instead to use "teineigo"; using "agaru" > with my verbs > > seemed snobbish on my part. > > Well, you'd talk politely to an elderly person you > respect in English too, > right? Makes sense. > English doesn't have that distinction, but, for > example, in French and my > own language (Serbian) there are different words and > for talking to someone > who you know well and someone you don't > know/respect/who is older than you. > > > That is why I am seriously studying what style to > use in what > > situation. If I make friends, I do not want to be > caught in the know- > > nothing and my Japanese sounding "unnatural". I > have yet to master > > the different styles of speech found in Japanese. > I may even be > > required to address the Emperor or one of his > household. (Unlikely, > > but you never know.) > > You'd use "keigo" with someone so high up the > ladder, but as you said, > you're not that likely to need it :) > > Marina > > > > On 2/15/07, ai3131 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- In > [email protected]<Japanese_Language%40yahoogroups.com>, > > Ainslie Mark > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Learning insults are fun and a small, but > important > > > part of language learning. Japanese insults are > > > (mostly) different to Western (English) insults > in > > > that it is generally the tone of the voice and > body > > > language that turn a word into an insult.> > > > > I see. So "Nan da yo?" said by a flirtatious woman > and a neurotic > > gangster are two different things. Right? > > > > > Often high school students use this kind of > language, > > > but in an affectionate way. I remember being > called > > > 'ba--ka!' when I was an exchange student - > whenever I > > > made a silly joke - you know the kind of joke > only > > > your parents might say!> > > > > I see. Again. Then again, using the wrong style of > speech in the > > wrong situation is the same as taboo speech, as > far as I know. > > Imagine using "hanashikotoba" when speaking to a > doctor, vs. > > using "sonkeigo" when talking to your friends. An > elderly man once > > told me not to use any "sonkeigo" in my [e-mail] > conversations with > > him, but instead to use "teineigo"; using "agaru" > with my verbs > > seemed snobbish on my part. > > > > > If you were just to know 'textbook' (formal) > Japanese, > > > it comes across as stiff and as a barrier to > effective > > > communication, so learning slang (including > insults) > > > puts you on a more intimate level with Japanese > > > people. I'd feel more at home with a non-native > > > English speaker who said 'G'day mate, how are > ya?' > > > (yes, I'm an Aussie), than someone who spoke > formally > > > and said 'Good day, sir. How goes you on this > fine > > > day? ' It's just not right ... > > > > > > Mark> > > > > That is why I am seriously studying what style to > use in what > > situation. If I make friends, I do not want to be > caught in the know- > > nothing and my Japanese sounding "unnatural". I > have yet to master > > the different styles of speech found in Japanese. > I may even be > > required to address the Emperor or one of his > household. (Unlikely, > > but you never know.) > > > > - Arian I. > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Japanese_Language/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Japanese_Language/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
