First off I want to say that my previous posts were done late on friday,
which is probably not the best time to write level-headed posts so I
apologise if my previous posts were too emotional.
Ken McNeil wrote:
>
> >Exactly competition is good. But I'm afraid a differ with you Ken on
> >what competition, I would prefer just competing implmentations, not
> >competing platforms (though even that in some ways is a good idea, eg.
> >one OS is not a good idea).
>
> You're right on both, within the Java(c) world competing implementations is
> good. While on a larger scale there needs to be a competing platform.
> Somewhat like you said, the perfect example is the dominance of Windows.
Yes having competing platforms is a good thing, I suppose with Java
things are a bit strange in that it is a platform upon other platforms
(not couting JavaOS). In this regard I'd agree that Java is unique,
rather then simply being another language like C++,Python or Perl.
> >Now hopefully some people from Sun are still reading this list (we've
> >seen evidence of it in the past) and that all these discussions are not
> >going to waste.
>
> Yet actions speak louder than words. Sun has historically given much more
> consideration to its licencees than their devlopers and I have little
> confidence in the idea that what is spoken on this mailing list has any
> influence in the board room.
I suppose since they get alot of money from their licensees it is only
to be expected that Sun listenes to them more than developers, being a
business, certainly you can't fault them for this.
> >So speaking for myself, I am giving up my expectations of Sun supporting
> >linux and am working on OSS implementations of java. If SUn does change
> >their minds, I'll be happy to be pleasently surprised, but if not I hope
> >to have an alternative to rely on.
>
> An alternative to Java(c) or Sun's JDK code?
I meant an alternative to Suns JDK code. Leaving the philosophical
issues aside from a technical stand point what has continuied to bug me
(no pun intended!) about using the commercial implementations or the JDK
is that if you do find a bug, you can't just go ahead and fix and put
out a patch for others to use. Now I realise this is less of an issue
now then in the earlier days of Java, but still if you use something
like Kaffe you can do this, if you use the JDK you effectively can't.
In a previous post in this thread someone mentioned that we can't expect
Sun to quickly react to all bug reports and that certainly commercial
vendors don't - well I think it has been shown that one of the benefits
of OSS implmentations is that you don't have to - if you're really
desperate you (or some else) can do it for yourself.
On the point of standardisation I must admit that my earlier comments
were probably to simplistic if not naive. Ken both you and Alex have
both raised good points about MS having too much control and influence
over bodies like ISO so I think that perhaps Sun not submitting a
standard to them might be in part justified.
Still I think the main point raised by this thread remains unanswered:
is it ok for Sun to continue to be in sole control of Java ?
Maksim.
--
Remember Darwin; building a better mousetrap merely results in smarter
mice.
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