Ken McNeil wrote:
>
> >I usually can't stand flame bait like this but I wanted to point out one
> >thing.
>
> How is this "flaim bait"? This is a topic that has been thrown around by
> plenty, and unless you work for Sun I see no reason why this should seem
> offensive to you.
>
> >This link is the paper 'Sun Community Source License Principles' which does
> >a fair job at explaining the motivation behind the license:
> > http://www.sun.com/981208/scsl/principles.html
> >It would behoove one to familiarize oneself with this before ranting on
> >about everything Sun is doing wrong -- there is a lot they're doing right,
> >too.
>
> I have read it (not just the summary) and I like many others I believe they
> have not gone far enough. There is a fundamental problem that must be
> addressed:
>
> ***How do you deal with a platform controlled by a corporation?***
I guess this is rhetorical - you seperate the company from the platform.
> >So, there is a clear tension between the desire to make Java truly Open
> >Source and the desire to prevent it from fragmenting to the point where its
> >market penetration is weakened. Clearly, as supporters of Java, we should
> >be
> >supportive of both goals. Otherwise it will be all too easy for someone
> >else
> >to come along with a "Java killer" which ends up dominating the market in
> >its place.
>
> This is were my opinions differ from many. I believe that even though the
> splintering of Java (Sun's Java not just a Java like language) would be
> negative, creating a viable alternative is important. There is currently
> nothing like Java out there and this is not only dangerous but odd when you
> look at the number of other languages out there. A fundamental part of the
> evolution of a technology is competition.
But why do people keep bringing up splintering - is it that M$'s attempt
at scared everyone to death ? To me if their is a standard their is no
splintering - you either completely implement it or you don't. I know
this is simplistic, but I don't see people wandering around bemoaning
the splintering of C, java is nice but after all it's nothing special,
it's just a language+runtime+classlibs, nothing more, nothing less (NO
matter what Sun says).
> >So, give Sun a little slack. They are making an honest effort to do the
> >right thing. It is far more constructive to work within the framework which
> >they are trying to build, and to provide useful feedback on that framework,
> >than simply "jumping ship" on Sun altogether. That approach can't do
> >anything
> >good for Java in the long run.
>
> Competition is good for Java!
>
> Note: I am in no way proposing that an alternative actually begin being
> developed at this point. I am simply speaking about it here because it is an
> interesting subject. And since anyone who uses Java and Linux together
> should be especially sensitive to this issue.
>
Exactly competition is good. But I'm afraid a differ with you Ken on
what competition, I would prefer just competing implmentations, not
competing platforms (though even that in some ways is a good idea, eg.
one OS is not a good idea).
And I think that you've hit the nail on the head by refering to
java+linux. To bring this back on topic for this list, I think everyone
here knows the problems of java on linux. This is why I'm sure you
don't see this thread on the windows or solaris equivalents of this list
(if such things exist).
Now hopefully some people from Sun are still reading this list (we've
seen evidence of it in the past) and that all these discussions are not
going to waste. From my point of view Sun has in general done ok with
java, but not on linux. As has been already pointed out, we don't blame
them for not supporting linux, we blame them for jumping on board in a
blazing of marketing-hype and then not delivering (the evidence is as
clear as the LACK of a full-release jdk1.2 on my harddisk).
So speaking for myself, I am giving up my expectations of Sun supporting
linux and am working on OSS implementations of java. If SUn does change
their minds, I'll be happy to be pleasently surprised, but if not I hope
to have an alternative to rely on.
Maksim Lin.
--
Remember Darwin; building a better mousetrap merely results in smarter
mice.
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