----- Original Message -----
From: "Dr Alun Moon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: February 10, 2000 8:35 AM
Subject: Re: [JAVA3D] True potential [was: RE: [JAVA3D] MathEngine is
"Windows only ": Y U C K !]
> "Casteel, Don" wrote:
> > I don't understand why you feel this isn't relevant?
> >
> > The base issues being addressed are "How to help Java3d realize it's
true
> > potential" what can be more relevant than that?
> >
> > I would like nothing more than to be able to accomplish what I need with
> > 100% pure Java.
> >
> > What I'm really after is development of Java packages like,
JavaDynamics3D,
> > JavaParticles3D, and JavaVolume3D.
>
> I agree completely.
>
Actually, I'd rather have extra packages in Java3D to deal with these
development areas. I don't think they need their own separate APIs but
that's just semantics.
> I'm looking at starting a research program, working on engineering
> design tools.
> For various reasons we'd like to use Java, the main one being
> portability and platform independence. Java 3D would be ideal... but
>
> 1. OpenGL or similar is not available for some of out identified
> target platforms.
> 2. Java 1.2 is not available for some of our targets either.
> 3. We would like to promote the use of 100% Pure Java where possible.
>
> How can I do this in J3D? Never mind the problems of porting stuff onto
> a 1.1 platform ( thank God I've got hold of a version of swing for
> jdk1.1.8).
Why is it that everyone feels that Java3D is tied to OpenGL and Java1.2? It
isn't. Sun's main reference implementation of the API is tied to OpenGL and
Java1.2. If you want to make a 100% Pure Java version, do it. No one is
stopping anyone from doing this. The spec is freely available. Write the
code to implement the functions in a manner that satisifies the
specification. This doesn't take rocket science. It just takes manpower
and 3D graphics / 3D sound knowledge to develop your own implementation.
If you license the Java3D code from Sun, it will just be that much faster
except you would still have to replace their lowest layer native interface
with a set of 100% pure java classes that will perform the same
functionality.
Sun chose an implementation based on OpenGL for speed because that's what
their developer surveys indicated was critical. If you want to blame
someone for the lack of an implementation on your target platform, blame the
vendor that supplies the version of Java on that platform that doesn't have
Java3D, not Sun. They are only supposed to do the reference implementation,
not all of the implementations on every platform.
>
> Sun promotes Java as a platform independent language and API set, an
> excellent move in my books.
> Then breaks this when it produces Java3D... Isn't that what Sun are
> sueing Microsoft about?
>
They didn't break anything. Java3D is an optional package. It is not a
required package because the licensees probably didn't want to implement it
by default.
If you look at the many of the core packages in a Java VM, they are built on
platform-specific code that is hidden below the Java API layer. Case in
point, Java 2D. The majority of the underlying code is native. The Windows
implementation uses DirectDraw at the lowest layer. This is no different
than what Sun did with Java3D except that they use OpenGL and Direct3D.
What Sun is suing Microsoft about is the fact that they modified the core
Java packages and the language itself to such an extreme that Java code
written for their VM was no longer compatible with other implementations.
If you write Java3D code on the Sun platform, it will work on any other
platform that implements the API. If the platform doesn't have an
implementation, your out of luck. The same is true for Java code and a
platform that doesn't have a VM.
> Come on guys (@sun) a little more thought about how people are going to
> deploy Java applications.
>
Sun is not in a vacuum here. The Java licensees and vendors have to play
their part in all of this as well. People should start bugging vendors like
IBM to get Java3D in their VM like HP, SGI and Blackdown have done or are
doing.
If you want to bother Sun, bother them with real problems like bug fixes and
performance on their implementations.
> Alun
>
> p.s.
> Anyone got a 1.1 applet that creates and runs a 1.2 vm?
> --
I can't help you there.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> Dr Alun Moon Research Engineer
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCID
> tel: +44(191) 222 5306 Bruce Building,
> fax: +44(191) 222 5833 University of Newcastle upon Tyne. NE1 7RU
>
>
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Roberto Speranza
President, Dot Internet Solutions Inc.
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