I've been watching the below discussion for some time know, with great
interest. I, too, have been developing a massively multi-player role
playing game, and I have in fact been doing so for *EIGHT* years (Although
much of this has been throw-away work due to the advances in Java.)
I finished just 2 months ago the very act of finalizing all the
requirements, and have developed a protype along the way that delievers on
every fullfillment of the requirements, with the exception of a few 3D
"thingies" that have to be added in.
I have built, over the years, a sophisticaed java toolbox of gaming APIs.
Everything from BFS to neural networks has already been coded and turned
into a nice self contained API. I have sophisticated distributed logging
systems for bug detection. And, I even have working prototypes of the java
terrain 3d engine based on brownian motion and midpoint displacement to give
VERY large world sizes, *AND* up to 2^64 such worlds. I've got a
sophisticated room database, object database, and I recently have even
adopted my database to use Castor for easy XML/SQL/Persitent caching
solution. (http://castor.exolab.org). And the monster database is well...
let's just say this, this let's the PLAYERS define the world, they define
the content. The actual game engine just churns random numbers
I've had help from a few individuals over the time. In fact, here in this
mailing list John Wright was instrumental in allowing me to understand how
to render *something* in Java3D. From there out the challenge wasn't
Java3D, but just the typical math of moving things in 3D space, which if
anything Java3D makes much easier.
The problem isn't that it *can't* be done... Its just that nobody has done
it!
It's like a lightbulb. Nobody knew that damn thing would work, but Edison
showed it could. Now... Well everyone has a lightbulb and that's simple
science taught to 7 year olds.
So given that, the question is how to do it. Well: Get VC and start a
company... OR: Already have a company? Spend a few million dollars (which
is the typical budget of a game these days. See the stories at
http://www.gamasture.com) OR: Open source? There's a few such scattered
attempts at starting something, but nothing (that I know of) really seems to
have caught on.
You need 15 people for a good game these days. And with Java games they all
need to be able to understand Java.
BTW, my regular job is telecom work.
Anyway, I could be easily convinced to move my code base to open source if I
felt there was enough interest.
Edward Becker
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ice Bone" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: [JAVA3D] Everquest
> Hehehe. That is a very important point since the
> actual number of people working on their own MMORPG is
> now five. Please include me as I'm working, with some
> friends, on a game we're calling RuneWar. :):)
>
> Personally my biggest concern with Java3D, still
> reading and learning the API so bear with me, is the
> ability to modify the terrain structure in real time
> and manipulating actors.
>
> I need the ability to modify the terrain mesh in real
> time so that I can construct "mud builder" tools into
> the game interface itself. This is so that my
> building crews can build, excavate, apply textures and
> blend textures while in their avatar form and so it
> will get properly rendered by the game engine.
>
> Another point is that I want my players to have the
> ability, with restrictions, to accomplish many of the
> same tasks. So that if a Wizard tosses a fireball at
> a spot on the ground, it shouldn't remain green. It's
> texture should be changed to a burnt one and the
> Z-axis values should be decreased a little (he dug a
> hole in the ground).
>
> Another question I have, which will be answered by the
> API no doubt, is how actors are manipulated. I
> already realize that there isn't a particle system,
> which is a little annoying, but actors are pretty much
> required to have anything other than utterly static
> displays.
>
> Another thing I was considering was to continue
> working on Java3D but dividing my code into rendering
> and game oriented sections and then using JNI to
> interface with an existing library.
>
> For that purpose there are a couple pretty solid
> libraries out there that are written in C/C++ which
> should do very nicely.
>
> Tools such as:
> http://www.egerter.com
> http://www.edgermage.com
> http://www.jet3d.org
> http://www.genesis3d.com
> http://crystal.linuxgames.com
>
> Any answers please?
>
> ed
>
> --- John Wright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Setting aside the issue of Everquest's game design
> > (which I personally
> > think is horrible) it has shown that excellent 3D
> > graphics can be done
> > in a massively multiplayer online game. And I know
> > at least four people
> > on this mailing list like myself that would like to
> > produce this type of
> > game.
> >
> > A big question is "Can Java 3D be used to match or
> > beat Everquest's
> > graphics?" And to that so far I'm favorably
> > inclined, so far I would
> > say Java 3D is definitely up to the task.
> >
> > A key to why Everquest's graphics are so effective
> > is that they have
> > very low polygon count creatures with well painted
> > textures. That
> > certainly can be done in Java 3D. One thing I don't
> > see a way to do is
> > to match their lighting effects. EQ has some good
> > lighting effects
> > (setting aside the point that "humans" can't see at
> > all at night and are
> > unplayable).
> >
> > As a community another key goal we might want to
> > help each other with is
> > some standard character animations. Java 3D needs
> > an "example" for how
> > to animate a character walking.
> >
> > Also there has been some bashing of the flaws and
> > glitches in Java 3D.
> > We seem easily able to overlook the flaws in a smash
> > success like
> > Everquest (have you ever seen the face texture for a
> > creature applied to
> > it's butt?). I'd like to see "perfection" as much
> > or more than anyone,
> > but let's face it the industry we are functioning in
> > is FULL of bugs.
> > Windows has thousands of bugs, even hardware can be
> > very tricky to get
> > just right. Damn I hate to sound like I'm saying
> > bugs are ok, but let's
> > not trash Java 3D when it's no worse than the rest
> > of the industry.
> >
> > - John Wright
> > Starfire Research
> >
> > Steve Pietrowicz wrote:
> > >
> > > Man, I *wish* Everquest had clouds like that.
> > Phew....that's a really
> > > cool URL.
> > >
> > > The clouds in Everquest are actually just texture
> > maps, done in some paint
> > > program. I'm not sure which they use. It could
> > have been generated by 3D
> > > Studio Ma. You can turn the clouds off
> > completely (I think), or have one
> > > layer or two layer clouds. It's been a while
> > since I've had one layer
> > > going, but I think they have clouds painted on a
> > blue background. The two
> > > layer effect is using the one layer texture in
> > conjunction with a second
> > > layer of clouds in a texture map with transparency
> > turned on. The texture
> > > maps move at different rates, and you get a nice
> > looking cloud
> > > effect. ...At least as nice as current Everquest
> > technology can do. I
> > > would expect EQ2 and other games will have even
> > nicer effects.
> > >
> > > Anyway, the cloud textures appear to me to be
> > thrown onto the inside of a
> > > giant sphere that encapsulates the whole outdoor
> > zone that you're in. The
> > > best place to see this effect is on the "good"
> > boat to Kunark, right after
> > > you zone into the Finora Vie area. If you face
> > away from where the boat
> > > will dock, you can see how the sky curves towards
> > the edge of the zone.
> > >
> > > I believe they change the tint of the background
> > on the textures as day
> > > progresses to night.
> > >
> > > It's a pretty simple technique, but fairly
> > effective.
> > >
> > > ....At least, that's my guess on how they do it,
> > based solely on
> > > observation. :-)
> > >
> > > If anyone here wants to try Everquest, I highly
> > recommend the game. The
> > > graphics aren't state of the art by today's
> > standards (They have to deal
> > > with system requirements for systems that are a
> > year or two old, since
> > > that's when they started it), but the game itself
> > is very
> > > compelling. Pretty addictive too. I saw
> > someone's quote on a message
> > > board once... "Everquest makes Crack look like
> > Diet Coke". Man, that's
> > > the truth.... :-)
> > >
> > > Steve
> > >
> > > At 04:02 PM 9/29/2000 -0700, Paul Byrne wrote:
> > > >Hi Dave,
> > > >
> > > >Check out
> > http://vterrain.org/Atmosphere/clouds.html
> > > >
> > > >Rgds
> > > >
> > > >Paul
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >MIME-Version: 1.0
> > > > >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> > > > >X-Priority: 3
> > > > >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> > > > >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE
> > V5.00.2615.200
> > > > >Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 18:51:07 -0400
> > > > >From: David <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > >Subject: [JAVA3D] Clouds
> > > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > >
> > > > >Hi all:
> > > > >
> > > > >I have scoured the web looking for techniques
> > for generating clouds ala
> > > > >Asheron's call and Everquest. Even came up
> > blank on Gamasutra. Can anyone
> > > > >toss me a hint? In particular I am looking for
> > moving clouds. Should I be
> > > > >using a multi-texture for highlighting a plasma
> > function?
> > > > >
> > > > >Dave Yazel
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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> > >
> >
>
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