Hi,
I agree with you. That architecture is pretty fast. But I would say that you
did not need ejb. Whatever the performance hit, if you need ejb for
supporting a true enterprise app -- distributed objects and high
scalability -- you will use ejb. I think the issues of success and failure
are much finer than pure performance.
I'd like to see some real data on comparing the *overall* results of using
and not using ejb for a true enterprise app -- what I mean is, not *only*
performance, but what problems did the non-ejb app have dealing with remote
transactions!
Cheers,
Vaughn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Sando" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "jBoss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 3:33 PM
Subject: RE: [jBoss-User] Case studies
> I also did a homespun o/r mapper for the same architecture: browser ->
> servlet -> beans -> o/r -> database. It kicks ass, and its sooooo much
> faster to develop for than EJB. For every entity you only create one
class
> instead of three.
>
> The plan WAS to migrate to EJB, but when I looked closely at it I would
have
> had to rewrite the whole thing, since a remote method call is completely
> different from an in-process one (ie, args by value instead of by
> reference).
>
> I think the in-process beans is a very good model. Most processing occurs
> in the servlets (formatting/parsing data for display) and the database.
The
> beans have business rules, but its just not that much of the processing
> going on. This design is still very scalable by adding bigger database
> hardware and/or more servlet engines.
>
> J2EE is a growing platform, of which EJB is one part. I plan to use all
of
> it except for EJB, JSP, and RMI-IIOP (that leaves JTA/JDBC SE, Servlet,
JMS,
> JNDI, JavaMail/JAF and J2EE Security architecture).
>
> HTH,
>
> ;-J
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Vaughn Vernon
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 12:41 PM
> > To: jBoss
> > Subject: Re: [jBoss-User] Case studies
> >
> >
> > For sure Oracle has done little to win me over with *anything* other
than
> > the database. Even their jdbc drivers are broken in places. What's up
with
> > that? Now, more to the point of hard data...
> >
> > Last winter I was the lead architect on an e-business web site
> > that used the
> > front half of j2ee, namely jsp/servlets and simple Java beans. Rather
than
> > using ejb for the enterprise data I opted for a home spun o-r mapping
> > solution that squirted Oracle db data into Java objects via
> > introspection/reflection. The project manager wanted to use Oracle's ejb
> > server, JServer, and Oracle's business objects (ejb) but from the looks
of
> > their integration with JDeveloper I chose to dodge that bullet
> > (CMM calls em
> > risks, fyi). The overall archtecture we went with looked like this:
> >
> > browser ... jsp/servlet->java beans->java business objects->oracle 8
> >
> > For our insane time constraints I believe leaving JServer (and
> > their totally
> > weird o-r mapping junk!) out of the picture was right smart of
> > me; although
> > had I had jboss then I think we could have done ejb successfully --
> > deployment is sooo quick and easy at 10-1 compared with weblogic. The
> > project was a success, though slightly over schedule. Why? Java?
> > No! Our web
> > designer kept flaking out and didn't show up with html when we needed to
> > move on. I was quite happy with JRun as a jsp/servlet engine. I thought
it
> > was very snappy, although I'll say that the package came confiured in a
> > strange way and it kept us guessing for a few days (required paid calls
to
> > tech support). We deployed on NT. The site is still running and being
> > extended, although the sponsor's marketing plan has failed to draw the
> > number of users desired. Otherwise I am sure they would LOVE to have
> > scalability problems and the NEED to move my "java business
> > objects->oracle
> > 8" to "ejb->oracle 8". I will refrain from identifying the site or
company
> > to protect the guilty :-)
> >
> > <suggestion>
> > If you doubt ejb, deploy using the above architecture and then back fill
> > with ejb as scalability demands (read, if your product sales succeed).
If
> > you do the above architecture correctly, plugging in ejb later
> > should not be
> > a very big deal at all... just replace the "java business objects" with
> > equivelent ejbs.
> > </suggestion>
> >
> > Vaughn
> >
> >
> > > Jeremy I'm not sure how much you've looked around, but you may want to
> > look
> > > at Orion if you're looking for something thats more affordable
> > and is more
> > > featured as a commercial product. I cringe at the idea of using a
> > databases
> > > vendors internally developed appserver - I've been fighting
> > this on my end
> > > on a project I'm interested in. Sure its nice to say 'well the
database
> > > supports that', but just as with anything else once you go down
> > that dark
> > > road there is usually no coming back from the embedding of LOTS of
> > > proprietary code into your system. I think Oracle makes a good
database,
> > but
> > > their tools and support systems are of the devil :)
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Jeremy Clymer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 2:51 PM
> > > To: jBoss
> > > Subject: RE: [jBoss-User] Case studies
> > >
> > >
> > > > Come on! I need "real life" we have so much IT people on the list
with
> > > > ongoing projects. Can we hear your failures and your successes?
> > >
> > > In my department, we have been using Oracle 8i's JServer for EJBs with
> > > terrible results. They force you to use too much proprietary
> > code and its
> > > not easy to develop on. We chase obscure errors and need to spend
time
> > > working around different oracle problems that come up. I love their
> > > database, but they are so far off the original intention of the
> > EJB spec.
> > >
> > > Thats why I've been looking into JBoss. A free app server thats
written
> > to
> > > the latest spec. The only problem that I have with JBoss is
> > that it won't
> > > be complete in time for my applications to go live. Therefore I have
> > > recommended that we go with Weblogic. It comes with its own problems,
> > such
> > > as high cost, but the fact that it is proven in the industry to
provide
> > > scalable solutions to large projects gives the project managers the
> > > confidence they need.
> > >
> > > JBoss on the other hand is not yet a complete solution. I'm sure that
> > when
> > > it is done, it will compete with the best app servers on the
> > market. But
> > > for my needs, its development won't be complete in time.
> > >
> > > Jeremy
> > >
> > >
> > >
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