Thanks.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jfw [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mario via Jfw
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2015 3:47 PM
To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
Cc: Mario
Subject: Re: reading page numbers in pdf files with jaws

after the pdf has been opened, use the JAWS cursor to find it 3 or 4 lines
down from the top of the reader window. it'll be announced as a fraction,
for example 1/20, that is page 1 out of 20 pages.
I don't know of any keystroke, but it would be neat if there is one.




On 10/30/2015 3:34 PM, John J. Fioravanti, Jr. via Jfw wrote:
> Hi: Is there a way to read page numbers in a pdf file using jaws and 
> windows
> 7 64 bit?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jfw [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lisle, 
> Ted (CHFS DMS) via Jfw
> Sent: Friday, October 30, 2015 8:37 AM
> To: The Jaws for Windows support list.
> Cc: Lisle, Ted (CHFS DMS)
> Subject: RE: Jaws 17 Download Links & What's New
>
> The disk contains both versions, and the install routine will analyze 
> and determine which is needed.
>
> Ted
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jfw [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of 
> O.Addison Gethers via Jfw
> Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2015 8:15 PM
> To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
> Cc: O.Addison Gethers
> Subject: RE: Jaws 17 Download Links & What's New
>
> Hello Mike,
> I spoke with someone today at Freedom Scientific  salesman about jaws 
> 17  he told me that I will be getting jaws 17 sometime next week  
> ,when I do get jaws 17 cds Can I still installed jaws 17 cds in laptop 
> even though laptop is 64 bits and desktop is 32 bits  when I receive 
> jaws 17 ? Can you explained to me what is the difference between 32 
> bits for desktop for jaws and 64 bits for laptop with jaws ?
> Addison
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jfw [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mike B 
> via Jfw
> Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2015 6:42 PM
> To: JFW List
> Cc: Mike B
> Subject: Jaws 17 Download Links & What's New
>
> Hi All,
>
> Below are the direct download links for Jaws 17 for both 32 & 64 bit 
> systems.  Also, what's new is below the download links.
>
> 32 Bit:
>
> http://files.freedomscientific.com/WebFiles/JAWS/J17.0.1010enu-x86.exe
>
> 64 Bit:
>
> http://files.freedomscientific.com/WebFiles/JAWS/J17.0.1010enu-x64.exe
>
> What's new:
>
> JAWS 17 Features
> Smart Navigation, More Efficient Interaction with Complex Web Pages 
> and Applications
>
> Today and in the future, users will be faced with an increased need to 
> work with complex web forms, tables, and even applications that run 
> inside of a web browser. This will impact your day to day interactions 
> with services on-line such as banking and shopping, in addition to 
> many web apps found in both companies and government agencies. For 
> instance, Internet Explorer can be used to log onto a Microsoft 
> SharePoint server to collaborate with other co-workers and create and 
> store documents. The new Smart NavigationT feature is designed to make 
> it more efficient when navigating web-based applications with the 
> Virtual Cursor as the LEFT and RIGHT ARROW or CTRL+LEFT and
> CTRL+RIGHT ARROW commands move by control instead of character and word.
> This makes navigation such as moving across toolbars, tab strips, and 
> navigation links more like navigating around a desktop application. 
> Pressing the Say Character, Say Word, or Say Line commands twice 
> quickly changes to the traditional navigation by character, word, 
> line, sentence, and paragraph so you can review the text of the 
> control. Smart Navigation resumes when you move to a different control by
pressing UP or DOWN ARROW or TAB.
> Alternatively, you can use the INSERT+X command to quickly toggle 
> between Smart Navigation and the more traditional character and word 
> navigation depending on the type of web site you are navigating.
>
>
> For example, if you use the LEFT and RIGHT ARROW keys to move across a 
> tab strip, you might hear JAWS announce something like; "Home tab
selected,"
> "Insert
> tab," and "Page Layout tab." If you wanted to review the items on the 
> tab strip character by character, press the Say Character (NUM PAD 5), 
> Say Word (INSERT+NUM PAD 5), or Say Line (INSERT+UP ARROW) commands twice
quickly.
> You can now navigate by character or word until you press DOWN ARROW 
> to move away from the tab strip to another control.
>
> Smart Navigation is off by default. To turn it on, there are a few ways.
>
> The quickest way to enable Smart Navigation is through the Startup 
> Wizard which automatically launches after JAWS is installed. When the 
> wizard starts, select the Next button until you reach the Common 
> Options page. You will be focused on a group of radio buttons where 
> you can use the ARROW keys to choose the Smart Navigation option you 
> want to use (Controls and Tables or Controls). Pressing TAB moves you 
> to another group of radio buttons that allow you to select how Forms 
> Mode activates. For the best experience with Smart Navigation, it is 
> recommended that users set Forms Mode to Semi-Auto or Manual.
> This prevents JAWS from unexpectedly turning on Forms Mode while 
> navigating with the ARROW keys. Once you have changed the options you 
> want, continue selecting Next until you reach the Braille Settings 
> page and then select Finish to save your changes. Smart Navigation 
> will now be enabled for any environments that use the Virtual Cursor.
>
> Alternatively, Smart Navigation can be configured through Settings 
> Center or Quick Settings. For instance, you may want to use Smart 
> Navigation in Firefox, but not in Internet Explorer.
>
> You can also temporarily toggle Smart Navigation on or off using the
> INSERT+X command. For instance, if you have configured Smart 
> INSERT+Navigation to
> be enabled
> by default and you encounter a web page where you would prefer not to 
> use it, you can press INSERT+X to turn it off and use the more 
> traditional navigation.
> JAWS will switch back to Smart Navigation when focus moves away from 
> the browser or you navigate to a different web site. This command is 
> also useful if you do not want to use the Say Character, Say Word, or 
> Say Line commands twice quickly to switch to standard navigation. It 
> offers the additional benefit of not automatically switching back to 
> Smart Navigation when you move to a different control with the UP or 
> DOWN ARROW keys. You can just press
> INSERT+X
> again to toggle back to Smart Navigation when you are ready.
>
> Note: When using this command to toggle Smart Navigation under certain 
> circumstances such as inside a table, focus will not always remain at 
> the location of the toggle. This is because the virtual document is 
> reformatted as JAWS goes in and out of Screen Layout.
>
> Anytime you are using Smart Navigation, JAWS will work in Screen Layout.
> This presents pages in the virtual buffer similar to how they appear 
> visually on the screen. Toolbar buttons or other lists of controls 
> that are visually laid out horizontally on the screen are displayed on 
> one line in the virtual document, allowing a single press of the DOWN 
> ARROW to skip the entire toolbar instead of having to move from button 
> to button to get past it.
>
> For a great example, please try JAWS 17 on a web form such as the 
> WebTrack sample form  on the Surf's Up pages. On this page, you will 
> be able to see the power of navigating more efficiently with the DOWN 
> ARROW then in previous versions.
>
>
> Smart Navigation offers two modes, Controls and Tables, or Controls.
> Controls and Tables offers the most complete experience with Smart 
> Navigation and is the mode that is enabled when using the INSERT+X toggle.
>
> When set to Controls and Tables and you are currently not in a table, 
> most web-based controls, including, but not limited to, buttons, 
> links, edit fields, list boxes, tree views, and headings, are treated 
> as single units when navigating by character or word. Performing a Say 
> Character, Say Word, and Say Line command twice quickly while focused 
> on a control will switch to character and word Navigation so you can 
> use the traditional navigation by character, word, line, sentence, and 
> paragraph to review a control, such as the text of a button or link, 
> in greater detail. Smart Navigation by controls automatically resumes 
> when you move to another control using TAB or UP or DOWN ARROW.
>
> If focused inside of a table, the RIGHT and LEFT ARROW keys move 
> between columns while the UP and DOWN ARROW keys move between rows. If 
> you press RIGHT ARROW to move from the last column in the current row 
> to the first column of
>
> the next row, an ascending sound is heard. If you press LEFT ARROW to 
> move from the first column in the current row to the last column in 
> the prior row, a descending sound is heard. JAWS also announces the 
> number of the row that was moved to.
>
> When focused in a cell and it contains any controls, such as a 
> heading, or an edit field, pressing the Say Character, Say Word, or 
> Say Line commands twice quickly will switch to control navigation, and 
> performing these commands again twice quickly will switch to character and
word navigation.
> If the cell does not contain controls, you can only switch to 
> character and word navigation. Moving focus away from the current 
> table cell using LEFT or RIGHT ARROW will switch back to the prior 
> navigation level, for example, pressing RIGHT ARROW while in character 
> and word navigation will return to Smart Navigation in tables as soon 
> as you move to a different cell. When you are in control navigation, 
> or character and word navigation, pressing UP or DOWN ARROW will move 
> to and read the entire row. Pressing UP or DOWN ARROW from the 
> beginning or end of the table will also resume Smart Navigation by
Controls and Tables.
>
> For an example of using Smart Navigation in tables, visit the Tables 
> with JAWS and MAGic  page on the Surf's Up pages.
>
> When set to Controls and focus is not in a table, navigation is the 
> same as the Controls and Tables option. The only difference is that if 
> you encounter a table, you will need to use the standard table reading 
> commands (CTRL+ALT+ARROW keys) or the Table layer (INSERT+SPACEBAR, t) 
> to navigate the table.
>
>
> When Smart navigation is active, press ALT+DELETE or INSERT+TAB to 
> have JAWS
>
> announce the current Smart Navigation level.
>
> New Sound Indication for Links
>
> As you navigate by line with Smart Navigation active, JAWS plays a 
> sound if the current line contains one or more links which would 
> generally be displayed on separate lines when you are not in Smart 
> Navigation. This sound helps you
>
> identify that a link exists and gives you a chance to pause to hear 
> about it or use TAB or the ARROW keys to move to it. To keep this 
> sound from being
>
> too intrusive, it is not heard if a line contains a link that is 
> preceeded by less than five characters. For instance, a bulleted or 
> numbered list that
>
> contains a link directly after the number or bullet.
>
> Use Settings Center to Configure Settings for a Specific Web Site
>
> In JAWS 17, you can now apply settings changes to a specific web site 
> domain
>
> using Settings Center. For instance, if you use Smart Navigation and 
> you have a particular web site where you would prefer not to have this 
> feature active, you can open Settings Center from the current site and
turn it off.
> Smart
> Navigation will continue working on all other web sites.
>
> To configure web site specific settings, do the following:
>
> list of 6 items
> 1. Open the web site where you want settings changes to apply.
> 2. Press INSERT+F2, select Settings Center, and press ENTER.
> 3. Press CTRL+SHIFT+W to open the settings file associated with the 
> currently active web site. Alternatively, press SHIFT+TAB to move to 
> the application list, press CTRL+HOME to move to the top of the list, 
> and then press DOWN ARROW one time to move to the settings file for the
current site.
> For example, if you open Settings Center from the Freedom Scientific 
> web site, you should
>
> see something like www.freedomscientific.com (Domain).
> 4. From the Search edit box, type all or part of the setting you want 
> to change. For example, "smart" for Smart Navigation, "Forms" for 
> Forms Mode options, etc.
> 5. Press DOWN ARROW to move to the filtered results of the Settings 
> Center tree view and make your preferred settings changes.
> 6. Press TAB to move to the OK button and activate it with the 
> SPACEBAR. The
>
> changes are made and saved. Settings Center closes.
> list end
>
> Now, whatever you have set for the current web site should only be 
> applied when any pages on this site are open and have focus. For 
> example, if you set Smart Navigation to Controls and Tables for the 
> Freedom Scientific web site,
>
> it should be off for all other web sites which is the default, unless 
> you are on Freedomscientific.com.
>
> New Options Added to Startup Wizard
>
> The Startup Wizard contains a series of pages that allow users to 
> quickly configure some of the more commonly used JAWS options 
> including speech settings, startup options, keyboard settings, 
> verbosity options, and braille settings.
>
> The Startup Wizard automatically launches after a full install of 
> JAWS, but can be accessed any time through the JAWS Help menu. In JAWS 
> 17, we have added a few more options we expect users will want convenient
access to.
>
> list of 2 items
> . The page which follows the Run JAWS Settings page is now called 
> Common Options. It contains new controls to configure Smart Navigation 
> and Forms Mode.
> . A new Braille Translation Settings page has been added directly 
> after the Verbosity Settings page and before the Braille Settings 
> page. It contains the following new options:
>
> list of 3 items nesting level 1
> . Language: Use this combo box to specify the Braille language. For 
> example,
>
> English, Spanish, French, German, and so on.
> . Output: Use this combo box to configure the output mode for reading 
> Braille on your display. The first option is always Computer Braille. 
> The other available options depend on the currently selected language. 
> For example, when the language is set to English United States, the 
> available output modes are U.S.
> English Grade 1, U.S. English Grade 2, Unified English Braille Grade 
> 1, and Unified English Braille Grade 2. If you set the language to 
> French, the available modes are French Grade 1 and French Grade 2.
> . Input Use this combo box to specify the input mode used when typing 
> Braille from the Perkins-style keyboard on your display. The first 
> option is
>
> always
> Computer Braille. The other available option depends on the currently 
> selected output mode. For instance, if you have chosen to display 
> Unified English Braille Grade 2, then you can choose to type in either 
> Computer Braille or Unified English Braille Grade 2. This setting is 
> not available if the selected output mode is Computer Braille, or the 
> selected output mode does not support input.
> list end nesting level 1
> list end
>
> Create domain specific scripts for Web Pages and Web Applications
>
> JAWS has always provided the ability to script desktop applications, 
> enabling many non-standard applications to be made accessible to JAWS
users.
>
> In recent
> years, however, more and more applications are being developed to run 
> inside
>
> web browsers. For example, Microsoft SharePoint and Google Docs are 
> web applications that allow you to create, edit, and save documents, 
> as well as collaborate with other users, directly through web pages 
> opened in Internet Explorer or Firefox.
>
> Since each web application can offer its own unique functionality, the 
> JAWS scripts for the web browser are too general to be of use for specific
pages.
> JAWS 17 extends the scripting functionality to enable you to create 
> scripts that only load when a particular web site is being accessed, 
> so you can customize a web page or application to your specific needs. 
> For instance, if you created scripts for www.microsoft.com, these 
> scripts would be loaded for any
>
> page
> opened on the Microsoft web site. Domain specific scripts are loaded 
> on top of the browser scripts so that JAWS can fall back to the 
> general scripts in situations where a domain specific script behavior 
> is not available. This gives scripters much more control when 
> scripting a web-based application for a client at a job site as they 
> can create specific functionality for the application without affecting
how JAWS performs on other web pages.
>
> To aid in creating domain specific scripts, three new script functions 
> have been added.
>
> list of 3 items
> . GetDocumentXML: This function obtains well-formed XML from the Dom 
> Server for parsing using the MSXML com object.
> . PerformActionOnElementWithTagAndAttribute: This function finds an 
> element in the DOM by tag and attribute/value pair and performs an 
> action on it such as setFocus, makeVisible, doDefaultAction, leftClick, or
rightClick.
> . PerformActionOnElementWithID: This function finds an element in the 
> DOM by
>
> unique ID and performs an action on it such as setFocus, makeVisible, 
> doDefaultAction, leftClick or rightClick.
> list end
>
> Using these functions, you could write scripts to do things like find 
> and speak a particular heading, add  the numbers in the last row of a 
> table and speak the total, and much more, all without moving the Virtual
Cursor.
>
> To demonstrate domain-specific scripting, we have included sample 
> SharePoint
>
> scripts that allow you to access web-based toolbars on a SharePoint 
> domain using the INSERT+CTRL+F8 keystroke. To enable these sample 
> scripts, do the
> following:
>
> list of 2 items
> 1. Create a confignames.ini file in your JAWS user settings folder 
> located at C:\Users\Your User Name\AppData\Roaming\Freedom 
> Scientific\JAWS\17.0\Settings\enu.
> 2.  Add the following lines.
>   [Domains]
>   fsservices-my.sharepoint.com=SharePointWeb
> list end
>
> If the scripts are not working, meaning that toolbars cannot be 
> activated with the INSERT+CTRL+F8 keystroke, check the address of the
current domain.
> If
> necessary, add another line to your confignames.ini to enable that 
> domain to
>
> be recognized so that the sharePoint sample scripts load.
>
> Liblouis Braille Translator now included for English
>
> JAWS 17 has switched to the popular and widely accepted open-source 
> Liblouis
>
> braille translator. This new translation now offers both contracted 
> and uncontracted Unified English Braille (UEB) and the more 
> traditional Contracted English Braille (CEB) when reading and writing. 
> Starting in 2016, UEB will become the standard in the United States. 
> Switching now to Liblouis will ensure JAWS offers the latest standards for
UEB translation.
>
> New in JAWS Touch Screen Support
>
> Since JAWS 15, users have had the ability to interact with the touch 
> screens
>
> found on various devices like the Dell Venue series of Windows tablets.
> Using
> one and multi-finger gestures such as taps, flicks, and swipes, users 
> navigate to and activate controls, read text, and perform other common 
> JAWS functions.
> In JAWS 17, we have continued to enhance touch screen support by 
> providing access to the Windows touch keyboard as well as adding the 
> ability to edit and select text in documents, messages, or web pages 
> right from the touch screen.
>
> Support for the Windows Touch Keyboard
>
>   JAWS 17 offers full support for the Windows touch keyboard, enabling 
> you to
>
> write documents, email messages, and fill out forms on the Internet right
> on your                 device's touch screen if you do not have access to
a
>
> physical keyboard. While a regular keyboard is still recommended for
writing
> lengthy documents or                 performing complex editing tasks,
using
>
> the Touch keyboard is convenient for writing a quick note, composing 
> or replying to an email, or filling out a form on a web site.
>
>   To activate the Touch Keyboard, double tap the Start Touch Keyboard 
> button on the Desktop, or perform the new JAWS gesture, four-finger 
> swipe down then up. JAWS announces "opened Touch Keyboard" and plays an
ascending sound.
> Once enabled,                 the keyboard is positioned in the bottom
part
> of
> the screen and each key is represented by a button. Use flick gestures to
> move to each key, or drag your                 finger around the screen to
> explore
> and locate keys. While exploring, JAWS plays a unique set of sounds to 
> alert
>
> you when you enter or leave the area of                 the screen
> containing
> the touch keyboard. Once you become familiar with the touch keyboard 
> layout,
>
> you can tap at the location of each key. To close the touch keyboard, 
> perform another four-finger swipe down then up. JAWS announces "closed 
> touch keyboard" and plays a descending sound.
>
> JAWS offers two different modes for typing characters:
>
> list of 2 items
> .  Standard Typing: A key is typed when a double tap or split tap is 
> performed on the screen after exploring to any of the keyboard 
> buttons. If alternative
>                      characters are available for the current keyboard 
> button, a triple tap will open a panel of alternative keys related to 
> the selected
> key. Performing a                     triple tap on any keyboard button in
> the alternative characters panel will close the panel. Standard Typing 
> is the default mode.
> .  Touch Typing: A key is typed when the finger is lifted from any of 
> the keyboard buttons, or a split tap is performed on the selected 
> keyboard button.
>                      If alternative characters are available for the 
> current keyboard button, a split double tap will open a panel of 
> alternative keys related
> to the selected                     key. Performing a split double tap on
> any keyboard button in the alternative characters panel will close the 
> panel.
>
> list end
>
> Use the new Touch Keyboard settings group located in the main Keyboard 
> group
>
> in Settings center to change the typing mode as well as choose whether 
> JAWS announces characters, words, both characters and words, or is 
> silent as you type using the touch keyboard. You can also change how 
> you are notified when the touch keyboard or the panel of alternate
characters opens and closes.
>
> Note: Changing the feedback for the touch keyboard is separate from 
> the feedback for the physical keyboard. This means you can have JAWS 
> say nothing
>
> when
> using a regular keyboard, but continue to announce both characters and 
> words
>
> when using the touch keyboard.
>
> Text Selection and Other Improvements in Text Reading Mode
>
>   Text reading is one of the three gesture modes that can be activated 
> by rotating two fingers on the screen. JAWS 17 will now also 
> automatically switch to Text Reading if you double tap on an element that
supports cursor
> navigation such as an article in the News                 app, or the text
> area of
> an editing application like Microsoft Word. When Text Reading is 
> activated using a double tap on a text element, for instance, the 
> second paragraph of a document, JAWS attempts to position the cursor 
> at the location of the double tap.
>
> When Text Reading is active, flicking left or right moves by 
> character, flicking left or right with two fingers moves by word, 
> flicking up or down moves by line, flicking up or down with two 
> fingers moves by paragraph, flicking left or right with three fingers 
> moves to the beginning or end of a line, and flicking up or down with 
> three fingers moves to the top or bottom of the text area. In 
> addition, you can now flick up or down with four fingers to move by 
> page, similar to using PAGE UP and PAGE DOWN. These gestures also move 
> the cursor, enabling you to navigate to the location in a document 
> where you want to insert text or begin selecting text. For example, 
> you could flick up
>
> with two fingers to move to the prior paragraph, flick left or right 
> to position the focus on a blank line, and then begin typing to insert 
> text at that location.
>
> Performing a triple tap on the screen with one finger will now toggle 
> text selection on or off. When enabled, using any of the above text 
> reading gestures will select the specific unit as well as move to it. 
> For example, to move to
>
> and select the next line, perform a triple tap and then flick down. 
> Text will continue to be selected as you navigate until you perform a 
> triple tap again
>
> to turn it off. To read currently selected text, you can now perform a 
> two-finger triple tap.
>
> Other Touch Screen Improvements
>
> Dragging a finger around the screen to explore and hear each element 
> now works in Text Reading mode in addition to Touch Navigation mode. 
> If Text Reading is currently active and you explore to an item that 
> does not support this mode, JAWS will automatically switch back to 
> Touch Navigation. As you explore, you can now have JAWS announce the 
> character or word at the current location
>
> by performing a split tap or split double tap.
>
> If you encounter an element that does not support standard cursor 
> navigation, such as a button, or an item in a list, performing a 
> three-finger swipe down then up now opens a Virtual Viewer window 
> containing the name of the element. You can then use the navigation 
> gestures described above to review this information.
> This is useful if you want to review a control in greater detail that 
> you did not quite understand when it was announced by JAWS during 
> exploration or when tapping it. When this mode is active, you will not 
> be able to navigate to other items on the screen. If you explore 
> outside of the Virtual Viewer, JAWS plays a sound to indicate you are 
> no longer in the window. Performing the three-finger swipe down then 
> up gesture again will close the Virtual Viewer.
>
> Tablet Orientation Notification
>
> JAWS now indicates in both speech and braille when the screen 
> orientation changes between portrait and landscape. When changing to 
> landscape, JAWS says "landscape, with home button to the left" or 
> "landscape, with home button to
>
> the right", depending on the position of the tablet. When changing to 
> portrait, JAWS says "portrait" or "portrait flipped."
>
> Explore Scripts
>
> A new Explore Scripts shortcut has been added to the Utilities folder 
> in Windows 8 and later and the Explore JAWS submenu located under the 
> JAWS program group in Windows 7 and earlier. Selecting this shortcut 
> opens the folder where the shared script files are stored.
>
> Script Compatibility Mode
>
> By default, scripts compiled using the Script Manager or the 
> scompile.exe command line tool in JAWS 17 will not work with prior 
> versions of JAWS. This is due to changes in JAWS 17 to improve the 
> localization process. In order to compile scripts that will work in 
> JAWS 17 as well as prior versions, select the new Compatibility Mode 
> option from the File Menu in Script Manager, or use the -c command line
option if using scompile.exe.
>
> Note: If you compile scripts with the compatibility option, and your 
> scripts
>
> use messages defined in JSM files that ship with JAWS 17, those 
> messages will always be in English regardless of the language of the 
> JAWS version that is running.
>
> Sports Scores Lookup Sources Temporarily Removed from Research It
>
> Until we can get cooperation from ESPN to allow access to their sports 
> results using the Research It feature, the MLB, NFL, NBA, and NCAA 
> Scores lookup sources have been removed. We hope to add them back in 
> the future once a solution is reached.
>
> Merge Utility No Longer Available
>
> Major changes have been made to improve the JAWS localization process. 
> This included reorganizing many of the JAWS settings files. Due to 
> these changes, the Merge utility is no longer installed with JAWS 17 
> as settings from prior
>
> versions cannot be merged. We are planning a solution for the future 
> which will replace this utility and provide an even greater benefit 
> for our customers.
>
> Take care.
> Mike
> This email was sent from my, iBarstool.  Go Dodgers, next year anyways!
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