As an employer, i appreciate availability posts and *always* check the person out, whether we need help at the moment or not.
I hope that freelancers will continue to post their availability on this list. That's why I am concerned about anything that might inhibit someone from posting for fear of being publicly criticized. It's hard to find good people! Let them post and I will make my own decisions. sean -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Dikan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Donna Marie Vincent" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: jobs@lists.nyphp.org Sent: 8/9/2008 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [nyphp-jobs] Freelance Remote PHP/MySQL gig with about 5+ yrsofexp & good client references This has all been an interesting discussion, i think Ben has a lot of cheers because we have all in some way or another had to feel the pain of cleaning up someone else's code mess, be it foreign-built or otherwise. I think the point that it wasn't the place do so might have some merit, but one point i haven't heard mentioned is whether or not the NY PHP board is really the place for Sundar or any other non- NY php developer to post about his services and expect non-reproachful responses when he does so. What are the NY PHP list moderator's positions on that? -Mike On Aug 9, 2008, at 6:44 PM, Donna Marie Vincent wrote: > Some people don't see anything unless and until it's happening to > them. If it doesn't have a negative impact on *you*, then I guess > everything is fine. > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: RDP <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Donna Marie Vincent <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; jobs@lists.nyphp.org > Sent: Saturday, August 9, 2008 6:32:37 PM > Subject: Re: [nyphp-jobs] Freelance Remote PHP/MySQL gig with about > 5+ yrsofexp & good client references > > Oh please Donna, the drama!! > > I didn't see any cruelty in Ben's observation. > > > > Rob > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Donna Marie Vincent > To: jobs@lists.nyphp.org > Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 1:32 PM > Subject: Re: [nyphp-jobs] Freelance Remote PHP/MySQL gig with about > 5+ yrsofexp & good client references > > This is cruel and inappropriate. It's more about killing off your > competition to build yourself up than it is about providing helpful > information. Barbaric is another word that comes to mind. > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: RDP <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Andrew Wint <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: jobs@lists.nyphp.org > Sent: Saturday, August 9, 2008 12:41:27 PM > Subject: Re: [nyphp-jobs] Freelance Remote PHP/MySQL gig with about > 5+ yrs ofexp & good client references > > I agree with Ben! Yay Ben! > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sean Fulton > To: Andrew Wint > Cc: RDP ; jobs@lists.nyphp.org > Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 12:25 PM > Subject: Re: [nyphp-jobs] Freelance Remote PHP/MySQL gig with about > 5+ yrs ofexp & good client references > > I disagree. This wasn't a former employer complaining about a > consultant's work, this was another consultant, a competitor if you > will, stating as fact something that no one can possibly double- > check. I think it's unfair, and am surprised that, on a list > dedicated to helping consultants find jobs, you folks would not be > more concerned about it. I think this is the first time I have seen > someone in a public forum accuse someone of something and not be > called to provide proof of their claims. Very puzzling. > > No one knows what the job requirements were, what the client's > expectations were, or what the budget was. Did the client provide > enough time and budget to have the job done right, or did they just > say, "Get it done for next to nothing," and then when they realized > the short-sidedness of their approach, hire Ben to clean up the mess > rather than go back to the developer they low-balled and admit that > they didn't give him enough time and $$ to do the job correctly. We > don't know. Ben won't even tell the list who the client was or > produce evidence of the inferior work. So to my mind, this whole > thread is quite unfair to the developer who originally posted his > availability and should be dropped. > > Finally, as you read this, please keep in mind that we are a company > that employs people on this list, that's why I subscribe. I have > employed developers here in the US and in six other countries. I > find *no* geo-political differences in coding skills. We evaluate > developers based on samples, client references and their ability to > follow directions. I have had more than a few developers who are so > focused on developing "great code" that they completely ignore the > project specs, budget and time-lines. Those people don't last long, > but people who follow directions do. > > Again, without knowing the original assignment that Sundar was given > and what went on between he and the client at that time, facts which > I doubt even Ben knows, we really can't draw any useful conclusions > nor should we try. > > Just my $.02. > > sean > > > > > Andrew Wint wrote: >> >> All he did was to provide transparency, now we are discussing the >> issues. Kristina gave very valid points about the 'delivery of >> crappy code' and not being able to take action because they are in >> another country. >> >> Another point is that this why we have standards of development >> practices, these standards shouldn't be compromised they can bend a >> bit but not break. Sundar needs to seek them out and adhere to them. >> >> I know it may seem harsh but it may help Sundar down the line in >> his growth. As well as protect a small struggling company, >> thinking they are saving money but falling into a trap. >> >> Ben did a good thing. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Aug 9, 2008, at 10:50 AM, RDP wrote: >> >>> I'm sorry Donna, but I disagree. >>> >>> It's perfectly fine to express a view about someone's work. >>> >>> Of course we make errors in our code, everybody does. But you >>> can't evaluate experience without examining ones work. >>> >>> And employers DO give out this information. Especially if an >>> individual was let go because of inability. >>> >>> Finally, I'm having a problem imagining rows of unemployed PHP >>> coders down and out on skid-row in cardboard boxes, homeless, >>> because their work was criticized. >>> >>> Bye, >>> >>> Rob >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Donna Marie Vincent >>> To: jobs@lists.nyphp.org >>> Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 9:26 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nyphp-jobs] Freelance Remote PHP/MySQL gig with >>> about 5+ yrs ofexp & good client references >>> >>> It's not only unethical to publicly disparage an individual's >>> ability to perform a job, you could be subject to legal action. >>> >>> Have you ever made an error while performing your job duties? >>> >>> Even a former employer would not give out this type of >>> information. Do you want to be responsible for someone not >>> getting work, and ending up homeless on the street, because of >>> your personal opinion about their work, which may or may not be >>> valid? >>> >>> This is not the same as publicly criticizing a particular product, >>> or a company's business practice. >>> >>> >>> >>> --- On Sat, 8/9/08, Ben Sgro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> From: Ben Sgro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> Subject: Re: [nyphp-jobs] Freelance Remote PHP/MySQL gig with >>> about 5+ yrs of exp & good client references >>> To: >>> Cc: jobs@lists.nyphp.org >>> Date: Saturday, August 9, 2008, 2:17 AM >>> >>> Hey, >>> >>> I audited a site this guy built - it was full of holes - SQL >>> injection, >>> XSS, default passwords on CMS admin accounts, etc. >>> >>> Also, the code was PHP4 w/HTML sprinkled all over it, cut and >>> paste, no >>> functions. No layouts, templates or >>> smarty. >>> Basically, impossible and very time consuming to make updates. >>> >>> Be sure to request some source before you work with him. >>> >>> - Ben >>> >>> sundar rajan wrote: >>> > >>> > Hi >>> , >>> > >>> > >>> > I'm a Freelance Telecommuting PHP/MySQL Programmer with about 5+ >>> yrs >>> > of experience in building web applications . >>> > >>> > >>> > Following are the type of small / contract jobs that I take: >>> > /Creating Custom scripts >>> > Member signup with email verification & login with session >>> authentication >>> > Dynamic PDF File generation from the database information using >>> FPDF >>> >>> > >>> libraries >>> > Command line processing of PHP scripts >>> > Installing CAPTCHA security code for the forms >>> > Google Maps <http://maps.google.com/> API to display a location >>> with >>> >>> > pop-up >>> info >>> > XML parsing to database >>> > CSV parsing to database >>> > RSS feeds using Carp >>> > Handling File uploads >>> > Generating statistics reports from the database values >>> > Generating Graphical reports from the database values >>> > Generating Excel download from the database >>> values >>> > Working with complex queries in Mysql console >>> > Building application with SEO friendly URLs >>> > Installing MySQL , Apache , PHP , SVN , AWStats & software apps in >>> > linux boxes >>> > / >>> > I can also take up bigger projects with proper >>> specification documents >>> >>> > along with the UI/HTML prototypes. >>> > >>> > >>> > Checkout my online portfolio at http://www.sundarrajan.com >>> > <http://www.sundarrajan.com/> to know more about my skill-set , >>> > experiences , projects as >>> well as client references. >>> > >>> > As a verified premier paypal member since 2005 with over 70 >>> seller >>> > reputation , I can accept paypal / credit card payments. >>> > >>> > Please do contact me for further details , if you have any jobs. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > With regards, >>> > Sundar >>> > Phone: (+1) 510.455.4387 >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > New York PHP >>> Community Jobs Mailing >>> List >>> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs >>> > >>> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online >>> > http://www.nyphpcon.com >>> > >>> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP >>> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List >>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs >>> >>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online >>> http://www.nyphpcon.com >>> >>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP >>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List >>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs >>> >>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online >>> http://www.nyphpcon.com >>> >>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP >>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List >>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs >>> >>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online >>> http://www.nyphpcon.com >>> >>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP >>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List >> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs >> >> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online >> http://www.nyphpcon.com >> >> Show Your Participation in New York PHP >> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php > > -- > Sean Fulton > GCN > Publishing, > Inc. > Internet Design, Development and Consulting For Today's Media > Companies > http://www.gcnpublishing.com > (203) 665-6211, x203 > > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online > http://www.nyphpcon.com > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online > http://www.nyphpcon.com > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php _______________________________________________ New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online http://www.nyphpcon.com Show Your Participation in New York PHP http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
