All,
At the end of the day, it's about what the market will bear. We feel that
people should be able to post their availability, and at the same time
critique each other in a professional manner. If you're not good at
handling criticism, or cannot criticize constructively, then I'd recommend
you not post.
While there have been some unnecessary jab posts in this thread, overall
this is the type of discussion that makes a jobs mailing list not just a
repository of resumes and position listings (those sites already exist).
This level of discussion provides:
-- those seeking skill to see how someone can handle themselves and what's
available in today's market
-- those with skill to see what and what/not to do from others (their
competition)
-- those on both sides, to get a feel for the current market's strong areas,
risks, etc.
There are a number of adages that perhaps illustrate the democratic nature
of free discussion (substitute "enemy" with "competition" where you feel
necessary):
Know thy enemy
What goes around comes around
Once bitten, twice shy
Keep your friends close and your enemies closer
If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen
Fool me once, shame on you
Fool me twice, shame on me
Let's keep it clean and come out fighting
Or, in the words from the FABULOUSLY BORING Mamma Mia movie that I saw last
night with my girlfriend:
The Name of the Game
---
Hans Zaunere / President / New York PHP
www.nyphp.org / www.nyphp.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
> Behalf Of Mike Dikan
> Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 7:57 PM
> To: Donna Marie Vincent
> Cc: jobs@lists.nyphp.org
> Subject: Re: [nyphp-jobs] Freelance Remote PHP/MySQL gig with about 5+
> yrsofexp & good client references
>
> This has all been an interesting discussion, i think Ben has a lot of
cheers
> because we have all in some way or another had to feel the pain of
cleaning up
> someone else's code mess, be it foreign-built or otherwise. I think the
point
> that it wasn't the place do so might have some merit, but one point i
haven't
> heard mentioned is whether or not the NY PHP board is really the place for
> Sundar or any other non-NY php developer to post about his services and
expect
> non-reproachful responses when he does so.
>
>
>
> What are the NY PHP list moderator's positions on that?
>
>
> -Mike
>
>
> On Aug 9, 2008, at 6:44 PM, Donna Marie Vincent wrote:
>
>
>
> Some people don't see anything unless and until it's happening to
them.
> If it doesn't have a negative impact on *you*, then I guess everything is
> fine.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: RDP <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Donna Marie Vincent <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
> jobs@lists.nyphp.org
> Sent: Saturday, August 9, 2008 6:32:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [nyphp-jobs] Freelance Remote PHP/MySQL gig with about
5+
> yrsofexp & good client references
>
>
> Oh please Donna, the drama!!
>
> I didn't see any cruelty in Ben's observation.
>
>
>
> Rob
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Donna Marie Vincent
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: jobs@lists.nyphp.org
> Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 1:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [nyphp-jobs] Freelance Remote PHP/MySQL gig
with
> about 5+ yrsofexp & good client references
>
> This is cruel and inappropriate. It's more about killing
off
> your competition to build yourself up than it is about providing helpful
> information. Barbaric is another word that comes to mind.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: RDP <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Andrew Wint <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: jobs@lists.nyphp.org
> Sent: Saturday, August 9, 2008 12:41:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [nyphp-jobs] Freelance Remote PHP/MySQL gig
with
> about 5+ yrs ofexp & good client references
>
>
> I agree with Ben! Yay Ben!
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Sean Fulton <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Andrew Wint <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: RDP <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ;
> jobs@lists.nyphp.org
> Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 12:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [nyphp-jobs] Freelance Remote PHP/MySQL
gig
> with about 5+ yrs ofexp & good client references
>
> I disagree. This wasn't a former employer
complaining
> about a consultant's work, this was another consultant, a competitor if
you
> will, stating as fact something that no one can possibly double-check. I
think
> it's unfair, and am surprised that, on a list dedicated to helping
consultants
> find jobs, you folks would not be more concerned about it. I think this is
the
> first time I have seen someone in a public forum accuse someone of
something
> and not be called to provide proof of their claims. Very puzzling.
>
> No one knows what the job requirements were, what
the
> client's expectations were, or what the budget was. Did the client provide
> enough time and budget to have the job done right, or did they just say,
"Get
> it done for next to nothing," and then when they realized the
short-sidedness
> of their approach, hire Ben to clean up the mess rather than go back to
the
> developer they low-balled and admit that they didn't give him enough time
and
> $$ to do the job correctly. We don't know. Ben won't even tell the list
who
> the client was or produce evidence of the inferior work. So to my mind,
this
> whole thread is quite unfair to the developer who originally posted his
> availability and should be dropped.
>
> Finally, as you read this, please keep in mind that
we are
> a company that employs people on this list, that's why I subscribe. I
have
> employed developers here in the US and in six other countries. I find *no*
> geo-political differences in coding skills. We evaluate developers based
on
> samples, client references and their ability to follow directions. I have
had
> more than a few developers who are so focused on developing "great code"
that
> they completely ignore the project specs, budget and time-lines. Those
people
> don't last long, but people who follow directions do.
>
> Again, without knowing the original assignment that
Sundar
> was given and what went on between he and the client at that time, facts
which
> I doubt even Ben knows, we really can't draw any useful conclusions nor
should
> we try.
>
> Just my $.02.
>
> sean
>
>
>
>
> Andrew Wint wrote:
>
> All he did was to provide transparency, now
we are
> discussing the issues. Kristina gave very valid points about the 'delivery
of
> crappy code' and not being able to take action because they are in another
> country.
>
> Another point is that this why we have
standards of
> development practices, these standards shouldn't be compromised they can
bend
> a bit but not break. Sundar needs to seek them out and adhere to them.
>
> I know it may seem harsh but it may help
Sundar down
> the line in his growth. As well as protect a small struggling company,
> thinking they are saving money but falling into a trap.
>
> Ben did a good thing.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Aug 9, 2008, at 10:50 AM, RDP wrote:
>
>
>
> I'm sorry Donna, but I disagree.
>
> It's perfectly fine to express a
view about
> someone's work.
>
> Of course we make errors in our
code,
> everybody does. But you can't evaluate experience without examining ones
> work.
>
> And employers DO give out this
information.
> Especially if an individual was let go because of inability.
>
> Finally, I'm having a problem
imagining rows
> of unemployed PHP coders down and out on skid-row in cardboard boxes,
> homeless, because their work was criticized.
>
> Bye,
>
> Rob
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Donna Marie Vincent
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: jobs@lists.nyphp.org
> Sent: Saturday, August 09,
2008 9:26
> AM
> Subject: Re: [nyphp-jobs]
Freelance
> Remote PHP/MySQL gig with about 5+ yrs ofexp & good client references
>
> It's not only unethical to
publicly
> disparage an individual's ability to perform a job, you could be subject
to
> legal action.
>
> Have you ever made an error
while
> performing your job duties?
>
> Even a former employer would
not give
> out this type of information. Do you want to be responsible for someone
not
> getting work, and ending up homeless on the street, because of your
personal
> opinion about their work, which may or may not be valid?
>
> This is not the same as
publicly
> criticizing a particular product, or a company's business practice.
>
>
>
>
> --- On Sat, 8/9/08, Ben Sgro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> From: Ben Sgro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [nyphp-jobs] Freelance Remote PHP/MySQL gig with about
5+
> yrs of exp & good client references
> To:
> Cc: jobs@lists.nyphp.org
> Date: Saturday, August 9, 2008, 2:17 AM
>
>
> Hey,
>
> I audited a site this guy built - it was full of holes - SQL
injection,
> XSS, default passwords on CMS admin accounts, etc.
>
> Also, the code was PHP4 w/HTML sprinkled all over it, cut and paste,
no
> functions. No layouts, templates or
> smarty.
> Basically, impossible and very time consuming to make updates.
>
> Be sure to request some source before you work with him.
>
> - Ben
>
> sundar rajan wrote:
> >
> > Hi
> ,
> >
> >
> > I'm a Freelance Telecommuting PHP/MySQL Programmer with about 5+
yrs
> > of experience in building web applications .
> >
> >
> > Following are the type of small / contract jobs that I take:
> > /Creating Custom scripts
> > Member signup with email verification & login with session
> authentication
> > Dynamic PDF File generation from the database information using
FPDF
>
> >
> libraries
> > Command line processing of PHP scripts
> > Installing CAPTCHA security code for the forms
> > Google Maps <http://maps.google.com/> <http://maps.google.com/>
API
> to display a location with
>
> > pop-up
> info
> > XML parsing to database
> > CSV parsing to database
> > RSS feeds using Carp
> > Handling File uploads
> > Generating statistics reports from the database values
> > Generating Graphical reports from the database values
> > Generating Excel download from the database
> values
> > Working with complex queries in Mysql console
> > Building application with SEO friendly URLs
> > Installing MySQL , Apache , PHP , SVN , AWStats & software apps in
> > linux boxes
> > /
> > I can also take up bigger projects with proper
> specification documents
>
> > along with the UI/HTML prototypes.
> >
> >
> > Checkout my online portfolio at http://www.sundarrajan.com
> > <http://www.sundarrajan.com/> to know more about my skill-set ,
> > experiences , projects as
> well as client references.
> >
> > As a verified premier paypal member since 2005 with over 70
seller
> > reputation , I can accept paypal / credit card payments.
> >
> > Please do contact me for further details , if you have any jobs.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > With regards,
> > Sundar
> > Phone: (+1) 510.455.4387
> >
> >
> >
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP
> Community Jobs Mailing
> List
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs
> >
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Jobs
Mailing
> List
>
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations
Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in
New York
> PHP
>
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing
List
>
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York
PHP
>
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>
> --
> Sean Fulton
> GCN
> Publishing,
> Inc.
> Internet Design, Development and Consulting For
Today's
> Media Companies
> http://www.gcnpublishing.com
> (203) 665-6211, x203
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
_______________________________________________
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http://www.nyphpcon.com
Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
