Hi Darren, 2013/10/22 <[email protected]>
> Lukas, > > I think if your open to creative solutions we can probably work something > out. I'll have to get back to you when I have more concrete plans to > include jOOQ and also after I've discussed it with the larger community. > Thanks for the feedback. Looking forward to hearing what your community says! Feel free to cross-link any discussion thread here on the jOOQ User Group. I'd be interested to join the discussion on your mailing list. > Just a general comment. You obviously know databases and are quite an > expert with SQL. jOOQ offers some incredible power if you want to fully > exploit the capabilities of SQL. There are a lot of users that would use > jOOQ that are not SQL experts and have very simple requirements. For > example, in Apache CloudStack the data access patterns are trivial and do > not really need advanced SQL features. But regardless of the features and > power that jOOQ exposes, I believe users will still want to use jOOQ > because its a delightfully simple API and easy to use. So you can look at > your users in two groups: casual users who use jOOQ because it provides a > simple and nice API, and power user who use jOOQ because it allows them to > get to powerful SQL features. For power users, I think they will pay > because jOOQ truly provides unmatched features. For casual users, you'll > never be able to monetize them. Power users though will probably be less > than 10% of your user base. So just be careful as you try to monetize the > power user, that you do not alienate the casual users. The casual user > will never pay you money, but they are essential to the livelihood of jOOQ. > Have a look at this page: http://java-source.net/open-source/persistence In the "casual user" segment, jOOQ has a huge amount of "casual competition". Little tools like DbUtils, JDBCTemplate, Ebean, ActiveJDBC, Squill, JaQu, Iciql, Jequel, you name it. jOOQ doesn't offer too many USPs in the area of "not using hardcore SQL". But it has awesome features like multi-tenancy (shared-schema multi-tenancy from jOOQ 3.3 onwards!), SQL transformation, SQL standardisation, typesafe embedding of stored functions, UDTs, powerful query lifecycle handling. Just today, I have implemented support for the SQL standard WINDOW clause (currently available in PostgreSQL and Sybase SQL Anywhere). Thanks to jOOQ 3.2's SQL transformation feature, this awesome SQL clause can be emulated easily in DB2, Oracle or SQL Server, which do not support the WINDOW clause. No other affordable database software is capable of such SQL transformation. Now, I think that the power users in jOOQ's user base are far more than 10%. The feedback I get on this user group indicates precisely so. My sales efforts in the last two weeks indicate the same. jOOQ's biggest added value is where people spend a lot of money on very good, feature-rich databases, such as Oracle or SQL Server and that's why they're here. My vision and my business plan is really to provide awesome tooling to those who want to do heavy SQL and have but two choices: jOOQ or JDBC. Now, I can tell you that the OSS jOOQ downloads have slightly increased since jOOQ 3.2, due to my recent (and upcoming) marketing efforts. And I'll be spreading the word even more at conferences, such as Topconf in Tallinn in November: http://www.topconf.com. Anyways, "casual SQL users" are often fine with MySQL, or if they're lucky, with PostgreSQL. And they still get jOOQ for free! Isn't that great and essential to jOOQ's livelihood? So in other words... I think you run the risk of unintentionally painting a picture that jOOQ is > for people that need advanced SQL features. > That picture is being painted quite intentionally :-) Finally, advanced SQL developers have appropriate tooling. And "casual users" can use it for a competitive price if they're using an advanced SQL database, or for free if they're using a "causal database". Lukas > Darren > > On Friday, October 11, 2013 2:55:42 AM UTC-7, Lukas Eder wrote: > >> Hello Darren, >> >> Thank you very much for your openness. I'm very sorry to hear how bad our >> new licensing strategy has made you feel. As mentioned before, I have long >> contemplated many alternatives, and even if I found this one to be the most >> promising, I knew that it will be very disappointing to many users who >> believe in Open Source as much as you do. I hadn't been looking forward to >> that aspect of moving forward at all. >> >> Rest assured, though, that I'm very open to discussion and creative >> solutions. I believe that there is room for win-win situations also with >> non-commercial Open Source stakeholders such as Apache CloudStack. What if >> jOOQ followed suit with the popular YourKit Profiler's licensing strategy >> (see >> http://www.yourkit.com/**purchase/index.jsp<http://www.yourkit.com/purchase/index.jsp>) >> and >> allowed Apache CloudStack and other non-commercial OSS projects to include >> (but not redistribute) "jOOQ Enterprise" in return for a backlink? By "not >> redistributing", I mean that the jOOQ API may only be used by CloudStack >> internally, and must not be made available to CloudStack consumers. >> >> I am aware of the Apache Foundation's generally rather strict views on >> what is acceptable for inclusion, but I think that it might be worth to >> pitch such an idea to your community. What do you think? >> >> > So while jooq is awesome, querydsl is probably acceptable. >> >> That is the best comparison I've heard so far. :-) May I cite this? >> >> Best regards, >> Lukas >> >> >> >> 2013/10/11 <[email protected]> >> >>> So here's my dilemma now. I'm a committer on Apache CloudStack. ACS >>> currently has a custom data access framework that is somewhat limiting. >>> I've been working on the technical feasibility of moving to an off the >>> shelf open source framework for database access. After much analysis I >>> came to the conclusion that hands down jooq was the right framework. I was >>> just working through some technical issues on how to integrate jooq and >>> then I was going to put this up for discussion on the mailing list. Now >>> with this license announcement, I'm not sure if I should do that anymore. >>> >>> It's not a legal issue I'm worried about, when people see this style of >>> commercial licensing they get turned off by it and apache is full of a >>> bunch of open source enthusiasts. So while jooq is awesome, querydsl is >>> probably acceptable. So I think I'm going to have to look further at >>> querydsl because I'm not too sure jooq will be accepted by the community >>> anymore. >>> >>> As I said before, sad day for me.... >>> >>> Darren >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "jOOQ User Group" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to jooq-user+...@**googlegroups.com. >>> >>> For more options, visit >>> https://groups.google.com/**groups/opt_out<https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out> >>> . >>> >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "jOOQ User Group" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "jOOQ User Group" group. 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