I started the personae and userstory lists, still a lot of work to do to fill out the details.
Jörn On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 10:22 PM, Mike Hostetler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ariel and Jörn have access. Thanks guys for filling this out so quickly! I > really appreciate it. > > Mike Hostetler > http://amountaintop.com > > > On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 13:05, Ariel Flesler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> Access please, [EMAIL PROTECTED] :) >> >> Thanks >> >> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 3:52 PM, Jörn Zaefferer >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >>> Yes, just contact Scott Jehl directly. Either he can handle it, or at >>> least he knows someone to delegate to. >>> >>> I'd like to get access to the planning document! >>> >>> Jörn >>> >>> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 8:44 PM, Mike Hostetler >>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> > Glen- >>> > >>> > Thanks for your feedback. I've started a Google Document with this >>> > information, it's just a skeleton right now. It can be viewed publicly >>> > at: >>> > http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dgv8xf4f_54fchbjkc3 >>> > >>> > If anyone would like access, please contact me directly. >>> > >>> > I currently have plans in my head for how to approach the development >>> > of the >>> > new site, and how to manage the migration process. I'm not sure how to >>> > communicate this, other then to just go ahead and do it, after we've >>> > finalized and agreed to the planning document. My approach reflects my >>> > own >>> > style and my goal of getting a quality product as fast as possible. >>> > I'm >>> > open to feedback on this. >>> > >>> > One area where I know I will need a bit of help is in the graphical >>> > design >>> > arena. Should I connect with Scott Jehl, the guy who designed the main >>> > site? I fully plan on using the current Drupal theme, but the >>> > individual >>> > page designs, (CSS and Graphics) are not my best strength. I can >>> > certainly >>> > tackle them, and leave room for improvement, but I think that the >>> > jQuery >>> > community deserves and expects a certain level of quality here. >>> > Thoughts? >>> > >>> > Mike Hostetler >>> > http://amountaintop.com >>> > >>> > >>> > On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 13:47, Glen Lipka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> Just a bit of "best practice" for designing a better experience: >>> >> >>> >> 1. Create personas. (1-2 hour) These are basically a list of the >>> >> people who matter and their different "types". >>> >> Example: New jQuery fan looking for a simple autocomplete. Name: >>> >> Chuck. What chucks wants: confidence the plugin is a good one. >>> >> options, comments, etc >>> >> Example 2: Advanced jQuery plugin author. Name: Sarah. What sarah >>> >> wants: SVN Access, simple updating, etc >>> >> There should be around 5 personas or so. (Less than 10) Give them >>> >> pictures. I swear to god, it makes the whole process easier. >>> >> >>> >> 2. Write down use cases (a.k.a. user stories). (2-6 hours) These are >>> >> REALLY helpful to manage the requirements. If your implementation can >>> >> achieve these use cases, then you know you didnt forget something >>> >> like. "Sarah needs to change her password for SVN". >>> >> >>> >> 3. Design the user experience in something simple/fast/cheap. I >>> >> suggest powerpoint, but it could be anything. Just so long as it is >>> >> the cheapest fastest possible way to show how the thing should be >>> >> built. >>> >> >>> >> 4. Eat your own young. Please don't get hung up on drupal or existing >>> >> ideas/systems. Redoing something ALWAYS is better than trying to >>> >> shoehorn an update. Starting from scratch is fun. Go for it! You >>> >> might end up choosing drupal again, but don't let a bad decision >>> >> before affect your decisions today. >>> >> >>> >> 5. Iterate. It's important to leave room for growth. Wouldn't it be >>> >> nice for people to vote for a plugin that doesn't exist? or to pay a >>> >> plugin author money to extend it? ideas are powerful. >>> >> >>> >> Anyway, I wish I had more time to devote to jQuery. :( So much >>> >> powerpoint these days. >>> >> >>> >> I'd be happy to help anyway I can. :) >>> >> Keep "pluggin" away! >>> >> >>> >> Glen >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> On Oct 19, 12:27 pm, "Jörn Zaefferer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> >> wrote: >>> >> > Thanks Rey for sharing ypur AMO experience! >>> >> > >>> >> > Afaik doing away with hosting wasn't an option anyway, only project >>> >> > management doesn't fit the picture. >>> >> > >>> >> > You're right that reviewing is a lot of work and requires resources >>> >> > we >>> >> > probably don't have. A less involved alternative would be to write >>> >> > down criteria that good plugins should adhere, and just check if >>> >> > those >>> >> > are met, and if so, highlight the plugin as such. This would cover >>> >> > aspects that a potential user would usually check before deciding to >>> >> > use a plugin, like presence and completeness of documentation. >>> >> > >>> >> > Jörn >>> >> > >>> >> > On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 5:31 AM, Rey Bango <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> >> > wrote: >>> >> > >>> >> > > Sorry for jumping so late into this discussion. Thanks for the >>> >> > > kudos >>> >> > > on >>> >> > > Mozilla AMO Joern. >>> >> > >>> >> > > The AMO add-on site is pretty involved. While it looks very simple >>> >> > > on >>> >> > > the front-end, there's quite a bit going on on the back-end that >>> >> > > helps >>> >> > > us add, disable, review, approve, diff and version add-ons. >>> >> > >>> >> > > While I like some of the ideas being thrown around, I'm not >>> >> > > convinced >>> >> > > that doing away with hosting is the answer. The fact that we have >>> >> > > a >>> >> > > central place for developers to come to to find plugins is a very >>> >> > > important advantage to the project. Although there are many >>> >> > > plugins >>> >> > > for >>> >> > > similar functionality, the fact that we have so many also needs to >>> >> > > be >>> >> > > viewed as a "positive" as it offers choice to our user base. >>> >> > > Having >>> >> > > lots >>> >> > > of choices does make things confusing but I'd rather have a little >>> >> > > confusion than nothing to offer at all. In addition, there have a >>> >> > > number >>> >> > > of cases of add-ons that have been seemingly abandoned in the repo >>> >> > > get >>> >> > > resurrected by a user who needed the functionality and took it >>> >> > > over. >>> >> > >>> >> > > If anything, I would like to see a combination of both a hosting >>> >> > > scenario and directory listing. This would allow those developers >>> >> > > that >>> >> > > wanted to upload their plugin a place to house it while those that >>> >> > > don't >>> >> > > can simply point back to their site. >>> >> > >>> >> > > I do think, as has been mentioned, that we need to get a better >>> >> > > system >>> >> > > in place to properly categorize the plugins. On AMO, for example, >>> >> > > we >>> >> > > have multiple categories but we also offer a recommended list of >>> >> > > top >>> >> > > add-ons (about 40 of them) and in addition, for each category, we >>> >> > > offer >>> >> > > a list of category recommended add-ons. This has been hugely >>> >> > > successful >>> >> > > and in fact, motivates many add-on developers to really improve >>> >> > > the >>> >> > > quality of their work. I can see the same thing being very >>> >> > > beneficial >>> >> > > to >>> >> > > the jQuery repo. So going with what Joern said, I think we need to >>> >> > > get >>> >> > > back to listing our official plugins the way that we used to and >>> >> > > also >>> >> > > create a recommended list of add-ons that we know are top-notch. >>> >> > >>> >> > > In terms of reviewing add-ons, understand that it would be a VERY >>> >> > > big >>> >> > > task. On AMO, we struggle with that daily because of the number of >>> >> > > submissions as well as the time involved in reviewing the add-ons. >>> >> > > At >>> >> > > this point, I'm not sure if we're prepared to take on that task >>> >> > > unless >>> >> > > we were able to get a good group of volunteers to check the >>> >> > > plugins. >>> >> > > It's definitely a good idea and again, would help the community by >>> >> > > giving them feedback on improving their work. >>> >> > >>> >> > > As for SVN, project management, etc, these are features that are >>> >> > > way >>> >> > > outside of the scope of a plugin repo. This is something that we >>> >> > > should >>> >> > > *NOT* do. We don't do this on AMO because of the complexity of >>> >> > > this. >>> >> > > On >>> >> > > AMO, we host the files necessary to install and add-on and that's >>> >> > > it. >>> >> > > The developers use other services for managing their project (eg: >>> >> > > MozDev.org or Google Code). >>> >> > >>> >> > > I would say that in order to do this the right way, we would >>> >> > > probably >>> >> > > need to build our own custom system. At the moment, Drupal doesn't >>> >> > > seem >>> >> > > to provide the best way to find plugins and perhaps it's because >>> >> > > it's >>> >> > > not meant to do so. >>> >> > >>> >> > > Rey... >>> >> > >>> >> > > Jörn Zaefferer wrote: >>> >> > >> That sounds very good to me! Releases usually consist of a >>> >> > >> download, >>> >> > >> a >>> >> > >> version number and a changelog. Thats all the repository should >>> >> > >> touch >>> >> > >> in terms of project hosting - thats also what for example >>> >> > >> addons.mozilla.com provides. Defining a convention to provide >>> >> > >> these >>> >> > >> via Google Code or a Wordpress blog with minimal effort would >>> >> > >> free >>> >> > >> other resources to focus on discussion and promotion of plugins. >>> >> > >>> >> > >> Jörn >>> >> > >>> >> > >> On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 6:17 PM, Diego <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> >> > >> wrote: >>> >> > >>> That would make sense because drupal is very poor and every >>> >> > >>> plugin >>> >> > >>> I've ever come across has its own homepage hosted elsewhere. >>> >> > >>> Maybe >>> >> > >>> plugins.jquery.com should focus on being a community for users - >>> >> > >>> not >>> >> > >>> developers of jQuery - allowing users to... >>> >> > >>> - 'watch' their favourite plugins >>> >> > >>> - discuss/get help from fellow users >>> >> > >>> - share / rate / comment >>> >> > >>> - post related links to demos / tutorials >>> >> > >>> - stay up-to-date with the latest releases >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> And the latest releases could be simply based on an XML feed >>> >> > >>> form >>> >> > >>> the >>> >> > >>> author's own website - it's probably safe to assume every plugin >>> >> > >>> developer has one... >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> You can't please everyone - so focus on pleasing the users and >>> >> > >>> let >>> >> > >>> the >>> >> > >>> developers manage their projects however they're most >>> >> > >>> comfortable >>> >> > >>> with... >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> How about that? >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> Cheers, >>> >> > >>> Diego A. >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> On Oct 14, 4:00 pm, "Nathan Bubna" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >> > >>>> +1 get out of the plugin project hosting business. make the >>> >> > >>>> plugin >>> >> > >>>> site a way to list/find/promote plugins, not a place to manage >>> >> > >>>> them. >>> >> > >>> >> > >>>> On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 2:34 AM, Diego A. >>> >> > >>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> >> > >>>> wrote: >>> >> > >>>>> Hi guys, >>> >> > >>>>> I agree with all the points raised by Yehuda and Jorn, but >>> >> > >>>>> unfortunately >>> >> > >>>>> Mike, the biggest problem of all is Drupal. >>> >> > >>>>> In a nutshell :- >>> >> > >>>>> - The navigation is shocking >>> >> > >>>>> - Issue management is long winded and painfully time-consuming >>> >> > >>>>> - So is uploading new files / creating new releases >>> >> > >>>>> I feel Yehuda and Jorn's points are great, but they focus >>> >> > >>>>> primarily around >>> >> > >>>>> giving jQuery user's better access to plugin - which is >>> >> > >>>>> undeniably >>> >> > >>>>> a >>> >> > >>>>> must-have great idea. However, The system must also cater for >>> >> > >>>>> those who do >>> >> > >>>>> (and will) voluntarily maintain their projects within the >>> >> > >>>>> community. >>> >> > >>>>> With that in mind, I recently moved all my plugins to Google >>> >> > >>>>> code >>> >> > >>>>> for the >>> >> > >>>>> following reasons :- >>> >> > >>>>> - Sub-version access >>> >> > >>>>> - Easy navigation >>> >> > >>>>> - Easy-to-use issue management system (with configurable email >>> >> > >>>>> alerts) >>> >> > >>>>> - WIKI (for project documentation) >>> >> > >>>>> - Ability for project collaboration >>> >> > >>>>> Hope that helps in some way... >>> >> > >>>>> Cheers, >>> >> > >>>>> Diego A. >>> >> > >>>>> 2008/10/13 Mike Hostetler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> >> > >>>>>> Hi Everyone- >>> >> > >>>>>> I'd like to start a discussion on how we can improve the >>> >> > >>>>>> plugins >>> >> > >>>>>> repository to better fulfill the needs of the community. >>> >> > >>>>>> When we >>> >> > >>>>>> first created the plugins site, there were a lot less >>> >> > >>>>>> plugins. >>> >> > >>>>>> As >>> >> > >>>>>> jQuery's popularity continues to rise, the need for >>> >> > >>>>>> additional >>> >> > >>>>>> features for plugin authors is growing. >>> >> > >>>>>> As the person most familiar with the plugins site, I get a >>> >> > >>>>>> decent >>> >> > >>>>>> amount of requests for tweaks here and there. Unfortunately, >>> >> > >>>>>> because >>> >> > >>>>>> of the choice of using Drupal with Drupal's Project module, >>> >> > >>>>>> the >>> >> > >>>>>> amount >>> >> > >>>>>> of features that can be easily turned on is small. I've been >>> >> > >>>>>> very >>> >> > >>>>>> cautious at modifying the source code of the Project module >>> >> > >>>>>> for >>> >> > >>>>>> many >>> >> > >>>>>> reasons. I'm in touch with the leaders of the Project >>> >> > >>>>>> Module, >>> >> > >>>>>> having >>> >> > >>>>>> met up with them at the last Drupalcon. Currently, there is >>> >> > >>>>>> ongoing >>> >> > >>>>>> work on the Project module for Drupal.org, and the Project >>> >> > >>>>>> module >>> >> > >>>>>> remains the last major issue in upgrading Drupal.org to >>> >> > >>>>>> Drupal 6. >>> >> > >>>>>> So, >>> >> > >>>>>> this problem is bigger then jQuery. >>> >> > >>>>>> What I'd like to solicit is feedback on the following: >>> >> > >>>>>> - What works with the current plugins site, what are it's >>> >> > >>>>>> strengths? >>> >> > >>>>>> - What doesn't work, where does it fall down? >>> >> > >>>>>> - What are the top 5 major features missing from the current >>> >> > >>>>>> site? >>> >> > >>>>>> - Are there any other open source project management >>> >> > >>>>>> solutions >>> >> > >>>>>> that >>> >> > >>>>>> are worthy of consideration to replace Drupal and the Project >>> >> > >>>>>> module? >>> >> > >>>>>> (PS. Because of the work involved in this, I would consider >>> >> > >>>>>> this >>> >> > >>>>>> only >>> >> > >>>>>> as a last resort) >>> >> > >>>>>> - Any other feedback is appreciated >>> >> > >>>>>> Thanks, >>> >> > >>>>>> Mike Hostetler >>> >> > >>>>> -- >>> >> > >>>>> Cheers, >>> >> > >>>>> Diego A. >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Ariel Flesler >> http://flesler.blogspot.com >> >> > > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "jQuery Development" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/jquery-dev?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
