Ok added a story. Will check again later. On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 7:01 PM, Jörn Zaefferer < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I started the personae and userstory lists, still a lot of work to do > to fill out the details. > > Jörn > > On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 10:22 PM, Mike Hostetler > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Ariel and Jörn have access. Thanks guys for filling this out so quickly! > I > > really appreciate it. > > > > Mike Hostetler > > http://amountaintop.com > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 13:05, Ariel Flesler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > >> Access please, [EMAIL PROTECTED] :) > >> > >> Thanks > >> > >> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 3:52 PM, Jörn Zaefferer > >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>> > >>> Yes, just contact Scott Jehl directly. Either he can handle it, or at > >>> least he knows someone to delegate to. > >>> > >>> I'd like to get access to the planning document! > >>> > >>> Jörn > >>> > >>> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 8:44 PM, Mike Hostetler > >>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>> > Glen- > >>> > > >>> > Thanks for your feedback. I've started a Google Document with this > >>> > information, it's just a skeleton right now. It can be viewed > publicly > >>> > at: > >>> > http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dgv8xf4f_54fchbjkc3 > >>> > > >>> > If anyone would like access, please contact me directly. > >>> > > >>> > I currently have plans in my head for how to approach the development > >>> > of the > >>> > new site, and how to manage the migration process. I'm not sure how > to > >>> > communicate this, other then to just go ahead and do it, after we've > >>> > finalized and agreed to the planning document. My approach reflects > my > >>> > own > >>> > style and my goal of getting a quality product as fast as possible. > >>> > I'm > >>> > open to feedback on this. > >>> > > >>> > One area where I know I will need a bit of help is in the graphical > >>> > design > >>> > arena. Should I connect with Scott Jehl, the guy who designed the > main > >>> > site? I fully plan on using the current Drupal theme, but the > >>> > individual > >>> > page designs, (CSS and Graphics) are not my best strength. I can > >>> > certainly > >>> > tackle them, and leave room for improvement, but I think that the > >>> > jQuery > >>> > community deserves and expects a certain level of quality here. > >>> > Thoughts? > >>> > > >>> > Mike Hostetler > >>> > http://amountaintop.com > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 13:47, Glen Lipka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > >>> >> > >>> >> Just a bit of "best practice" for designing a better experience: > >>> >> > >>> >> 1. Create personas. (1-2 hour) These are basically a list of the > >>> >> people who matter and their different "types". > >>> >> Example: New jQuery fan looking for a simple autocomplete. Name: > >>> >> Chuck. What chucks wants: confidence the plugin is a good one. > >>> >> options, comments, etc > >>> >> Example 2: Advanced jQuery plugin author. Name: Sarah. What sarah > >>> >> wants: SVN Access, simple updating, etc > >>> >> There should be around 5 personas or so. (Less than 10) Give them > >>> >> pictures. I swear to god, it makes the whole process easier. > >>> >> > >>> >> 2. Write down use cases (a.k.a. user stories). (2-6 hours) These are > >>> >> REALLY helpful to manage the requirements. If your implementation > can > >>> >> achieve these use cases, then you know you didnt forget something > >>> >> like. "Sarah needs to change her password for SVN". > >>> >> > >>> >> 3. Design the user experience in something simple/fast/cheap. I > >>> >> suggest powerpoint, but it could be anything. Just so long as it is > >>> >> the cheapest fastest possible way to show how the thing should be > >>> >> built. > >>> >> > >>> >> 4. Eat your own young. Please don't get hung up on drupal or > existing > >>> >> ideas/systems. Redoing something ALWAYS is better than trying to > >>> >> shoehorn an update. Starting from scratch is fun. Go for it! You > >>> >> might end up choosing drupal again, but don't let a bad decision > >>> >> before affect your decisions today. > >>> >> > >>> >> 5. Iterate. It's important to leave room for growth. Wouldn't it > be > >>> >> nice for people to vote for a plugin that doesn't exist? or to pay > a > >>> >> plugin author money to extend it? ideas are powerful. > >>> >> > >>> >> Anyway, I wish I had more time to devote to jQuery. :( So much > >>> >> powerpoint these days. > >>> >> > >>> >> I'd be happy to help anyway I can. :) > >>> >> Keep "pluggin" away! > >>> >> > >>> >> Glen > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> On Oct 19, 12:27 pm, "Jörn Zaefferer" < > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>> >> wrote: > >>> >> > Thanks Rey for sharing ypur AMO experience! > >>> >> > > >>> >> > Afaik doing away with hosting wasn't an option anyway, only > project > >>> >> > management doesn't fit the picture. > >>> >> > > >>> >> > You're right that reviewing is a lot of work and requires > resources > >>> >> > we > >>> >> > probably don't have. A less involved alternative would be to write > >>> >> > down criteria that good plugins should adhere, and just check if > >>> >> > those > >>> >> > are met, and if so, highlight the plugin as such. This would cover > >>> >> > aspects that a potential user would usually check before deciding > to > >>> >> > use a plugin, like presence and completeness of documentation. > >>> >> > > >>> >> > Jörn > >>> >> > > >>> >> > On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 5:31 AM, Rey Bango <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>> >> > wrote: > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > Sorry for jumping so late into this discussion. Thanks for the > >>> >> > > kudos > >>> >> > > on > >>> >> > > Mozilla AMO Joern. > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > The AMO add-on site is pretty involved. While it looks very > simple > >>> >> > > on > >>> >> > > the front-end, there's quite a bit going on on the back-end that > >>> >> > > helps > >>> >> > > us add, disable, review, approve, diff and version add-ons. > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > While I like some of the ideas being thrown around, I'm not > >>> >> > > convinced > >>> >> > > that doing away with hosting is the answer. The fact that we > have > >>> >> > > a > >>> >> > > central place for developers to come to to find plugins is a > very > >>> >> > > important advantage to the project. Although there are many > >>> >> > > plugins > >>> >> > > for > >>> >> > > similar functionality, the fact that we have so many also needs > to > >>> >> > > be > >>> >> > > viewed as a "positive" as it offers choice to our user base. > >>> >> > > Having > >>> >> > > lots > >>> >> > > of choices does make things confusing but I'd rather have a > little > >>> >> > > confusion than nothing to offer at all. In addition, there have > a > >>> >> > > number > >>> >> > > of cases of add-ons that have been seemingly abandoned in the > repo > >>> >> > > get > >>> >> > > resurrected by a user who needed the functionality and took it > >>> >> > > over. > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > If anything, I would like to see a combination of both a hosting > >>> >> > > scenario and directory listing. This would allow those > developers > >>> >> > > that > >>> >> > > wanted to upload their plugin a place to house it while those > that > >>> >> > > don't > >>> >> > > can simply point back to their site. > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > I do think, as has been mentioned, that we need to get a better > >>> >> > > system > >>> >> > > in place to properly categorize the plugins. On AMO, for > example, > >>> >> > > we > >>> >> > > have multiple categories but we also offer a recommended list of > >>> >> > > top > >>> >> > > add-ons (about 40 of them) and in addition, for each category, > we > >>> >> > > offer > >>> >> > > a list of category recommended add-ons. This has been hugely > >>> >> > > successful > >>> >> > > and in fact, motivates many add-on developers to really improve > >>> >> > > the > >>> >> > > quality of their work. I can see the same thing being very > >>> >> > > beneficial > >>> >> > > to > >>> >> > > the jQuery repo. So going with what Joern said, I think we need > to > >>> >> > > get > >>> >> > > back to listing our official plugins the way that we used to and > >>> >> > > also > >>> >> > > create a recommended list of add-ons that we know are top-notch. > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > In terms of reviewing add-ons, understand that it would be a > VERY > >>> >> > > big > >>> >> > > task. On AMO, we struggle with that daily because of the number > of > >>> >> > > submissions as well as the time involved in reviewing the > add-ons. > >>> >> > > At > >>> >> > > this point, I'm not sure if we're prepared to take on that task > >>> >> > > unless > >>> >> > > we were able to get a good group of volunteers to check the > >>> >> > > plugins. > >>> >> > > It's definitely a good idea and again, would help the community > by > >>> >> > > giving them feedback on improving their work. > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > As for SVN, project management, etc, these are features that are > >>> >> > > way > >>> >> > > outside of the scope of a plugin repo. This is something that we > >>> >> > > should > >>> >> > > *NOT* do. We don't do this on AMO because of the complexity of > >>> >> > > this. > >>> >> > > On > >>> >> > > AMO, we host the files necessary to install and add-on and > that's > >>> >> > > it. > >>> >> > > The developers use other services for managing their project > (eg: > >>> >> > > MozDev.org or Google Code). > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > I would say that in order to do this the right way, we would > >>> >> > > probably > >>> >> > > need to build our own custom system. At the moment, Drupal > doesn't > >>> >> > > seem > >>> >> > > to provide the best way to find plugins and perhaps it's because > >>> >> > > it's > >>> >> > > not meant to do so. > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > Rey... > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > Jörn Zaefferer wrote: > >>> >> > >> That sounds very good to me! Releases usually consist of a > >>> >> > >> download, > >>> >> > >> a > >>> >> > >> version number and a changelog. Thats all the repository should > >>> >> > >> touch > >>> >> > >> in terms of project hosting - thats also what for example > >>> >> > >> addons.mozilla.com provides. Defining a convention to provide > >>> >> > >> these > >>> >> > >> via Google Code or a Wordpress blog with minimal effort would > >>> >> > >> free > >>> >> > >> other resources to focus on discussion and promotion of > plugins. > >>> >> > > >>> >> > >> Jörn > >>> >> > > >>> >> > >> On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 6:17 PM, Diego <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>> >> > >> wrote: > >>> >> > >>> That would make sense because drupal is very poor and every > >>> >> > >>> plugin > >>> >> > >>> I've ever come across has its own homepage hosted elsewhere. > >>> >> > >>> Maybe > >>> >> > >>> plugins.jquery.com should focus on being a community for > users - > >>> >> > >>> not > >>> >> > >>> developers of jQuery - allowing users to... > >>> >> > >>> - 'watch' their favourite plugins > >>> >> > >>> - discuss/get help from fellow users > >>> >> > >>> - share / rate / comment > >>> >> > >>> - post related links to demos / tutorials > >>> >> > >>> - stay up-to-date with the latest releases > >>> >> > > >>> >> > >>> And the latest releases could be simply based on an XML feed > >>> >> > >>> form > >>> >> > >>> the > >>> >> > >>> author's own website - it's probably safe to assume every > plugin > >>> >> > >>> developer has one... > >>> >> > > >>> >> > >>> You can't please everyone - so focus on pleasing the users and > >>> >> > >>> let > >>> >> > >>> the > >>> >> > >>> developers manage their projects however they're most > >>> >> > >>> comfortable > >>> >> > >>> with... > >>> >> > > >>> >> > >>> How about that? > >>> >> > > >>> >> > >>> Cheers, > >>> >> > >>> Diego A. > >>> >> > > >>> >> > >>> On Oct 14, 4:00 pm, "Nathan Bubna" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>> >> > >>>> +1 get out of the plugin project hosting business. make the > >>> >> > >>>> plugin > >>> >> > >>>> site a way to list/find/promote plugins, not a place to > manage > >>> >> > >>>> them. > >>> >> > > >>> >> > >>>> On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 2:34 AM, Diego A. > >>> >> > >>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>> >> > >>>> wrote: > >>> >> > >>>>> Hi guys, > >>> >> > >>>>> I agree with all the points raised by Yehuda and Jorn, but > >>> >> > >>>>> unfortunately > >>> >> > >>>>> Mike, the biggest problem of all is Drupal. > >>> >> > >>>>> In a nutshell :- > >>> >> > >>>>> - The navigation is shocking > >>> >> > >>>>> - Issue management is long winded and painfully > time-consuming > >>> >> > >>>>> - So is uploading new files / creating new releases > >>> >> > >>>>> I feel Yehuda and Jorn's points are great, but they focus > >>> >> > >>>>> primarily around > >>> >> > >>>>> giving jQuery user's better access to plugin - which is > >>> >> > >>>>> undeniably > >>> >> > >>>>> a > >>> >> > >>>>> must-have great idea. However, The system must also cater > for > >>> >> > >>>>> those who do > >>> >> > >>>>> (and will) voluntarily maintain their projects within the > >>> >> > >>>>> community. > >>> >> > >>>>> With that in mind, I recently moved all my plugins to Google > >>> >> > >>>>> code > >>> >> > >>>>> for the > >>> >> > >>>>> following reasons :- > >>> >> > >>>>> - Sub-version access > >>> >> > >>>>> - Easy navigation > >>> >> > >>>>> - Easy-to-use issue management system (with configurable > email > >>> >> > >>>>> alerts) > >>> >> > >>>>> - WIKI (for project documentation) > >>> >> > >>>>> - Ability for project collaboration > >>> >> > >>>>> Hope that helps in some way... > >>> >> > >>>>> Cheers, > >>> >> > >>>>> Diego A. > >>> >> > >>>>> 2008/10/13 Mike Hostetler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>> >> > >>>>>> Hi Everyone- > >>> >> > >>>>>> I'd like to start a discussion on how we can improve the > >>> >> > >>>>>> plugins > >>> >> > >>>>>> repository to better fulfill the needs of the community. > >>> >> > >>>>>> When we > >>> >> > >>>>>> first created the plugins site, there were a lot less > >>> >> > >>>>>> plugins. > >>> >> > >>>>>> As > >>> >> > >>>>>> jQuery's popularity continues to rise, the need for > >>> >> > >>>>>> additional > >>> >> > >>>>>> features for plugin authors is growing. > >>> >> > >>>>>> As the person most familiar with the plugins site, I get a > >>> >> > >>>>>> decent > >>> >> > >>>>>> amount of requests for tweaks here and there. > Unfortunately, > >>> >> > >>>>>> because > >>> >> > >>>>>> of the choice of using Drupal with Drupal's Project module, > >>> >> > >>>>>> the > >>> >> > >>>>>> amount > >>> >> > >>>>>> of features that can be easily turned on is small. I've > been > >>> >> > >>>>>> very > >>> >> > >>>>>> cautious at modifying the source code of the Project module > >>> >> > >>>>>> for > >>> >> > >>>>>> many > >>> >> > >>>>>> reasons. I'm in touch with the leaders of the Project > >>> >> > >>>>>> Module, > >>> >> > >>>>>> having > >>> >> > >>>>>> met up with them at the last Drupalcon. Currently, there > is > >>> >> > >>>>>> ongoing > >>> >> > >>>>>> work on the Project module for Drupal.org, and the Project > >>> >> > >>>>>> module > >>> >> > >>>>>> remains the last major issue in upgrading Drupal.org to > >>> >> > >>>>>> Drupal 6. > >>> >> > >>>>>> So, > >>> >> > >>>>>> this problem is bigger then jQuery. > >>> >> > >>>>>> What I'd like to solicit is feedback on the following: > >>> >> > >>>>>> - What works with the current plugins site, what are it's > >>> >> > >>>>>> strengths? > >>> >> > >>>>>> - What doesn't work, where does it fall down? > >>> >> > >>>>>> - What are the top 5 major features missing from the > current > >>> >> > >>>>>> site? > >>> >> > >>>>>> - Are there any other open source project management > >>> >> > >>>>>> solutions > >>> >> > >>>>>> that > >>> >> > >>>>>> are worthy of consideration to replace Drupal and the > Project > >>> >> > >>>>>> module? > >>> >> > >>>>>> (PS. Because of the work involved in this, I would consider > >>> >> > >>>>>> this > >>> >> > >>>>>> only > >>> >> > >>>>>> as a last resort) > >>> >> > >>>>>> - Any other feedback is appreciated > >>> >> > >>>>>> Thanks, > >>> >> > >>>>>> Mike Hostetler > >>> >> > >>>>> -- > >>> >> > >>>>> Cheers, > >>> >> > >>>>> Diego A. > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > > >>> > > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Ariel Flesler > >> http://flesler.blogspot.com > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Ariel Flesler http://flesler.blogspot.com --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "jQuery Development" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/jquery-dev?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
